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".......COS99 RA65 discussions"

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

".......COS99 RA65 discussions"

Old 27th Oct 2018, 19:03
  #21 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 18
Quite frankly if you didn’t sign over to 08 then you have no right to now. Go find another a job. It’s called risk assessment and You f$$ked up if you haven’t sorted your finances out to retire at 55. Tough.
rsb is offline  
Old 27th Oct 2018, 23:38
  #22 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: No where
Posts: 1
Originally Posted by rsb View Post
Quite frankly if you didnít sign over to 08 then you have no right to now. Go find another a job. Itís called risk assessment and You f$$ked up if you havenít sorted your finances out to retire at 55. Tough.
Wrong mate. CX tried to coerce pilots into continuing to 65 on degraded conditions. Some of our members had enough fortitude to resist that and simply say "no". Regardless, they are still entitled to work to 65, as to suggest otherwise is discriminatory, as at other companies they would not have been forced to effectively pay for their own normal retirement. age. The age IS 65, and they are entitled to that as the rest of us are. If they had all signed over back in 08, they would have all still been ahead of you for upgrade, so no loss. Stop trying to divide the pilots...it's the company that has been doing their best to accomplish that. We shouldn't be helping them.
Air Profit is online now  
Old 27th Oct 2018, 23:53
  #23 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Asia
Posts: 95
Completely agree with rsb and xwindldg. The company was clear about what was on offer in 08. IF, and it's a big if, the company allow this THEY will have gone back on their word. I understand that going back on their word is quite normal. But in this case it's in their interest to let COS99 pilots go at 55.
Bangaluru is offline  
Old 28th Oct 2018, 00:22
  #24 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: No where
Posts: 1
I'll say it again, what the company was "clear about" was also discriminatory. Therefore, those who chose to not capitulate now have the law of discrimination on their side. The company's "terms" were illegal, and therefore those who were discriminated against have the right to have that overturned. Btw, I am on COS 08, I just don't like to see CX coercing pilots into signing for inferior conditions. That should interest ALL pilots at this pathetic airline.
Air Profit is online now  
Old 28th Oct 2018, 01:12
  #25 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: CYYZ
Posts: 69
Leaving CX at 55 doesn't mean you are not employable. There are plenty of options... good options, too!
Sea Eggs is offline  
Old 28th Oct 2018, 04:40
  #26 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Age: 43
Posts: 977
The only way guys are going past 55 who didn't sign 08, is on COS18. Honestly I don't think this will delay commands for guys much. It is just helping to disarm the pilot body. CX wants some Captains on cos18 as this is the flex in the system. They will crew the airline so that they do the min hours every month, get paid way less than anyone else, and have enough CNs so that those on 99/08 are at 84hrs every month. If the shit hits the fan again with number they just work the 18 guys harder. Cos 18 disarms the rest of us, they are going to over crew the airline but we (99/08 guys) will always be at 84 hours.

Anyone who goes across to cos18 is just reducing the little strength this union has.
SloppyJoe is offline  
Old 28th Oct 2018, 05:58
  #27 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: York International
Posts: 626
Correct Joe, if they actually manage to recruit anyone on 18 then they will use our OT to pay them for minimum hours. They will in effect be free pilots.
Fly747 is offline  
Old 28th Oct 2018, 22:45
  #28 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 4
The only way CoS18 guys work substantially less is if CX shrinks the airline. This seems to be exactly what they intend to do... Reduce airframes until the pilot numbers are correct. Sure, theyíll take all the 777X and A350s, but theyíll park as many 77Ws and A330s as required until the numbers work out. Same at KA with NEOs, etc. The rest of the market goes to the competition... Well done Swires, yíall are geniuses!!! Ever heard of cutting off your nose to spite your face?
cxorcist is offline  
Old 29th Oct 2018, 01:47
  #29 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 5
Effectively, CX is barely any larger an airline than it was three years ago. Sit and ponder that for a bit when you are planning your career progression. CX is dead, and it's only the stubborn delusion of an ever smaller and smaller percentage of the pilot group who don't realise it. Eventually, every one of us will understand that their best career hopes are long in the rear-view mirror. Get out now, while airlines are hiring and the economy is relatively good. All too soon both those facts will change, and you and your families will be trapped in a very unhappy place, still working for an employer who doesn't respect you, value you or care one whit about you or your family. You will be forced into a COS18 situation and your career will effectively be over. If you doubt about any of that, well....time will tell won't it?
mngmt mole is offline  
Old 29th Oct 2018, 02:57
  #30 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Hotel
Posts: 179
Anyone who joined this place on the past few years Is screwed.

You're screwed for career progression.
You're screwed for quality of life.
You're screwed for career earnings.

You're screwed BECAUSE this airline is not growing.
You're screwed BECAUSE management is incompetent.
You're screwed BECAUSE Hong Kong is in a downward spiral.
You're screwed BECAUSE you chose to join.

You're NOT screwed because a few hundred guys ahead of you refused to be bullied into an inferior contract to the one they joined on.

Get over yourselves and identify the real enemy.
missingblade is offline  
Old 29th Oct 2018, 22:14
  #31 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2011
Location: earth
Age: 39
Posts: 19
I know a lot of people at CX KA and other airlines that are all very happy and intend on staying for many years.

COS18 is terrible yes, but HK is not the hell that everyone is making out.

Im happy here and I have a life outside work, maybe get off PPRuNe and spend time with you families.
canthelpit is offline  
Old 29th Oct 2018, 22:21
  #32 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: www
Posts: 523
hmmm, let's look at the two most recent posts, and consider which one more represents reality. Not too much difficulty in figuring that one out is there?
Apple Tree Yard is offline  
Old 29th Oct 2018, 23:04
  #33 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: hong kong
Posts: 0
Wake upend smell the roses canthelpit.....you clearly one of these pilots that had nothing before you came here. Or came from a 3rd world country. HK is a over crowded sh1t pool. Air quality is poor. Rental is highest in the world.(but stay in you DB bubble with your wife not working) if this makes you feel manly, Chinese is taking over, CX is cutting everything from under your nose.
But you probably been here 7 years or so - still gaining your 2000 hours, but RQ on a wide body....ha ha ha its laughable.

CX has absolutely no experience pilots any more. All JFO's and FO's I fly with think they know everything but come up with excuses after every approach/landing because the are not confident in there skills.
CX is in a world of trouble....shrinking this airline daily is a great way to save money. Its concerning and a massive problem. I would be very worried if you as a pilot don't have a plan B.

Any pilot wanting to join CX/KA I say honestly exhaust your options entirely before joining.
lessonlearnt is offline  
Old 29th Oct 2018, 23:09
  #34 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2011
Location: earth
Age: 39
Posts: 19
Like I said, COS18 is not good and I have told any who have asked that they should not do it.

otherwise, Iím happy that I live in DB and that I have a wife not working.

totaly makes me feel like a man lol

Im out
canthelpit is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2018, 04:05
  #35 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Fragrant Harbour
Posts: 4,734
I know a lot of people at CX KA and other airlines that are all very happy and intend on staying for many years.
We obviously move in different circles. Most of the people CX/KA people I know, the main topic of conversation is about when they're getting out of here. Even among the locals. Those cadets who have another passport are all converting their licences, as the HKCAD ones are now not worth the paper they're printed on.
Dan Winterland is online now  
Old 30th Oct 2018, 09:48
  #36 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: uk
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by Dan Buster View Post
They are shrinking the airline secretly because the TB/CC is working.
Look at all the IntraCX news though and they desperately want everyone to believe they are still growing the airline.
Dont give up the fight.
The airline IS contracting both in passengers carried, freight tonnage and when the 12 ER's go back, aircraft numbers.
unitedabx is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2018, 12:47
  #37 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 5
There will be a lot more than 12 ERís going back, says a fly on a wall. 😎
mngmt mole is offline  

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