Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.



Old 13th Mar 2018, 12:29
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: London
Posts: 1

To all that voted for 50/50 in European CMP award mechanism, Iím highly disappointed at your selfishness and utter disregard for the seniority system. It shows your true colours and the disrespect you have for your more senior colleagues.

I for one will now change my 25/75 vote to 0/100 because it will afford anyone halfway or above on the seniority list an equal or higher satisfaction rate than under a 25/75.
SabrinaSenior is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Mar 2018, 14:14
  #2 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: No where
Posts: 582
I'm not sure this isn't a wind-up, but on the subject itself I have to agree. If a person is willing to compromise seniority on this issue, then they will suffer a career where other aspects of seniority are also compromised. The problem with that reality is overall it compromises the eventual value and viability of the career itself. An own goal for certain. That is why it's usually best to have the grown ups making these decisions. The peasants will always vote for free bread. Sad by predictable fact of life.
Air Profit is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Mar 2018, 15:12
  #3 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2007
Location: CLK
Posts: 246
Yet again CXeniority advantages the company and not those on the aircrew seniority list.
Farman Biplane is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Mar 2018, 15:48
  #4 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: In a Bar
Posts: 147
Not sure where the OP is coming from, as the vote is complete, the results announced four days ago, and 25/75 won?
Jn14:6 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Mar 2018, 15:55
  #5 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 1,641
I’m afraid there is a fair amount of ignorance amongst the pilot group on this subject. Straight seniority (100/0) produces very low satisfaction rates in a PBS system, which is much different and worse than bidding hard lines. The nuances of why that is the case are not necessarily intuitive but I will attempt an explanation.

A 100/0 system essentially has, within the confines of training and previous month crossover patterns, the most senior pilot building his own roster. #2 builds from what is leftover and so on... This gives seniority far more control than bidding hard lines within a traditional system. Therefore, more pilots in the middle of the list (let’s call it the middle 70%) get even less of what they want than they would in a hard line system because the most desirable patterns have been cherry-picked and stacked together.

If straight seniority is truly the democratically chosen preference, then the AOAs should be pursuing a hard line bidding system, which the Company will never agree to because of the potential to run trips into leave, carryover patterns, etc. So we have a complex PBS (JCR) program, we should use it as it is designed to run, which is to get the greatest number of pilots their greatest number of preferences filled as much as possible.

I don’t know if 75/25 is the answer, but I believe it is in the ballpark. We should be looking at other airlines’ pilot groups (with similar route structures) using PBS to make this determination. Transparency is not gained by 100/0 but by having a proper pilot oversight committee imbedded within the PBS process to ensure things are being done correctly. Will this be a challenge at CX because of their decades long inclinations to manually interfere? Yes, I suppose it will. Therefore, the power of the oversight committee needs to be clearly defined from the outset.
cxorcist is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Mar 2018, 20:25
  #6 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: England
Posts: 554
No seniority based rostering system works if there are not enough pilots...
Kitsune is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 14th Mar 2018, 01:12
  #7 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: cloudcuckooland
Posts: 136
Fortunately, if one is HKG based, then there is no requirement to vote for the kind of PBS associated with CMP. Because there isn't one.
1200firm is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 14th Mar 2018, 04:11
  #8 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
Posts: 470
CMP & Seniority

Sorry, being a tad cynical, I think this is all a waste of time on everyones part. Flight crew are the last CX group able to have functional input into the design/functioning of the system which means that are the lowest priority and as that's the case, will benefit the least in what it's capable of providing. Just the way it works at CX.

As long as they have Ĺ a floor full of clerks responding to Training Control, Crew Control, GMA, Rostering + 100's of spiteful middle and upper managers and the unabashed use of "Manual Input" is available, nothing will change.
Flex88 is offline  
Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service