What will YOU do to protect your pay and conditions?
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checklistcomplete
The airline collapsed because it over-extended itself by buying stakes in numerous loss-making airlines, including Belgium's Sabena and Poland's Lot, in an attempt to form its own airline alliance.
The remains of Swissair and the regional carrier Crossair were brought together in 2002 to form the new national carrier Swiss.
After a shaky start which threatened the existence of the fledgling airline, Swiss was taken over by Germany's Lufthansa in 2005.
The airline collapsed because it over-extended itself by buying stakes in numerous loss-making airlines, including Belgium's Sabena and Poland's Lot, in an attempt to form its own airline alliance.
The remains of Swissair and the regional carrier Crossair were brought together in 2002 to form the new national carrier Swiss.
After a shaky start which threatened the existence of the fledgling airline, Swiss was taken over by Germany's Lufthansa in 2005.
Join Date: Aug 2008
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They hear us making noise, but they don’t listen. Part of the problem is that our message is not uniform. The other problem is their own arrogance. They don’t see things how they really are because the truth is rather inconvenient for them. They just keep parroting the same tired slogans, hoping the repetition makes us believe them, but most of us have seen this same song and dance for too long. RH, AT, DP - I know you are all liars and do not believe you!
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Trafalgar
Your posts are consistent, accurate and sensible. The problem is the young pilots feel totally detached from the senior ones. The HKAOA has done nothing to address this and indeed would appear to be doing the dividing at the behest of the company. Hopeless.
Your posts are consistent, accurate and sensible. The problem is the young pilots feel totally detached from the senior ones. The HKAOA has done nothing to address this and indeed would appear to be doing the dividing at the behest of the company. Hopeless.
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The pilots can see no hope of anything good happening at CX , if they stay then just a career of constant erosion of conditions of service and contempt from Management. The lack of direction and leadership is extraordinary. The DFO and the GMA are prepared to burn the airline to the ground and the CEO, who should be pouring a bucket of water over them, is encouraging them to continually alienate the aircrew. Nobody is saying "stop and reach an accommodation with the aircrew", which can only mean that Senior Management want real conflict . The words of Time To Win are just vacuous and empty ramblings , with no real intent to do things differently, just the same old gameplay. Threaten and impose. Stand by this week , with the announcement of the new imposed housing allowance, to see the end of any hope of a reconciliation.
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I think they honestly don't get it.
In their view, the rest of the airline got hit with 600 firings, including many long standing colleagues and friends. Heck, a swire prince got the push. So it is only fair that crew share the pain.
But, for those ground staff that didn't get the chop, package didn't change. Sure, workload increased, but no impact on take home.
Firing 10-30% of crew, because they are surplus to requirements after a re-org, would be equivalent, and frankly understandable - if the work isn't there, it isn't there.
Cutting crew costs 10-30% with the same number of crew is a completely different scenario. But in their mind, it is the same, and you are being selfish and ignoring the sacrifice of the 600 by not agreeing
In their view, the rest of the airline got hit with 600 firings, including many long standing colleagues and friends. Heck, a swire prince got the push. So it is only fair that crew share the pain.
But, for those ground staff that didn't get the chop, package didn't change. Sure, workload increased, but no impact on take home.
Firing 10-30% of crew, because they are surplus to requirements after a re-org, would be equivalent, and frankly understandable - if the work isn't there, it isn't there.
Cutting crew costs 10-30% with the same number of crew is a completely different scenario. But in their mind, it is the same, and you are being selfish and ignoring the sacrifice of the 600 by not agreeing
It's not the same at all as the Cathays can't afford to lose any pilots. They need more than the current numbers to keep the operation going and to fulfil the expansion plans. If they offer lower remuneration, you have the choice to accept the new terms - or leave. If too many leave, then they will have torevisit the Ts and Cs.
They are hoping that not too many will leave for their plans to work. The way I see it, with the numbers already deciding it's time to move on without knowing the terms of the lower offer, it's never going to work.
It's market forces. The market is not in their favour.
They are hoping that not too many will leave for their plans to work. The way I see it, with the numbers already deciding it's time to move on without knowing the terms of the lower offer, it's never going to work.
It's market forces. The market is not in their favour.
Last edited by Dan Winterland; 4th Dec 2017 at 09:57.
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It's not necessarily about lower pay and conditions. It IS all about 'faith' and 'trust'. No matter what this management 'promises' for the future, their past behaviour, with countless lies, deceit and bullying has convinced most of us that there can be no future with CX. Few of us are willing to risk our futures, and that of our families based on the promises of a proven group of narcissistic liars. They ALWAYS renege or ignore the promises they make. Every single time. Now that there is a proven long-term history of such treatment, their continued lies are seen for what they are. We (the collective 'we') are either in the process of leaving, or making our plans to do so. A simple audit of those I have flown with these past few months makes that plainly clear. The airline is already doomed, only our management can't see it. But that is no surprise, as arrogance blinds them to the facts around them.
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They can try and “impose” what they like. The TB and CC would then continue, the number of trainers will continue to decline (along with line pilot resignations) until the operation becomes unsustainable.
What should concern anyone planning to stay around, is the way pilot retention is being mismanaged. Unless the end goal is to shrink Cathay Pacific? There seems to be little doubt that KA pilots too, are being driven into contract compliance. Can the operation survive both pilot groups in CC? The consequence of this, as you've pointed out, is a number of pilots are looking about in self-preservation- career and health amidst a stressful and toxic culture.
I've been quite surprised. Pilots who only a few months ago had 3 year plans, 5 year plans, 10 year plans, after looking about and assessing the two buckets, are looking toward a future beyond Hong Kong.
It all seems to be going so distressingly bad, it must be deliberate?
I've been quite surprised. Pilots who only a few months ago had 3 year plans, 5 year plans, 10 year plans, after looking about and assessing the two buckets, are looking toward a future beyond Hong Kong.
It all seems to be going so distressingly bad, it must be deliberate?
Last edited by Gnadenburg; 5th Dec 2017 at 00:30.
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I’ve wondered the same, but I don’t think it is deliberate. If CX wants to get smaller (I call this becoming a boutique carrier), they will be handing HKA marketshare without a fight. The third runway and additional gate space will go almost entirely to competitors.
Does CX gain more or less pricing power this way? Competitors can undercut you on price to the point of losing money, and because of their size they survive. Eventually, you get pushed out of the market altogether.
The only way to make the boutique airline model work is to offer a product that no competitor can compete with. Clearly, CX has been going the opposite direction with the product.
Also, even if the profit margin becomes better in a boutique carrier, the airline doesn’t necessarily make more money. A 2% margin now makes the same money as a 4% margin at half the size.
If CX thinks they will get both margin expansion and maintain growth simply by cutting costs, then I want some of what they’re smoking, or snorting.
Does CX gain more or less pricing power this way? Competitors can undercut you on price to the point of losing money, and because of their size they survive. Eventually, you get pushed out of the market altogether.
The only way to make the boutique airline model work is to offer a product that no competitor can compete with. Clearly, CX has been going the opposite direction with the product.
Also, even if the profit margin becomes better in a boutique carrier, the airline doesn’t necessarily make more money. A 2% margin now makes the same money as a 4% margin at half the size.
If CX thinks they will get both margin expansion and maintain growth simply by cutting costs, then I want some of what they’re smoking, or snorting.
