Cathay Dragon DEFO
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Join Date: May 2007
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Cathay Dragon DEFO
Hi guys
I got a few questions about cathay dragon.
1. Actual salary - in website it's 77000 HKD + 22000(housing) and plus extra flight allowance I guess which is around 14000 USD per month in total?
2. Average flying hours a month? I assume around 70~80 hours a month? with 8~10 days off?
3. Time to go in command course? I read 1.5~2 years since its expanding. Also the passrate has gone up recently.
4. Intensity of training? I only have flown boeing and last 2 years I flew long haul most of time. I assume around 6 months for non airbus experienced pilots?
5. Living expense? I am thinking around 3000 USD to rent two bedrooms apartment and food and other stuff are dependent on how you manage it. I am still single so I wouldn't have to worry about raising family in HKG yet.
6. How many intake per year?
Thank you in advance
I got a few questions about cathay dragon.
1. Actual salary - in website it's 77000 HKD + 22000(housing) and plus extra flight allowance I guess which is around 14000 USD per month in total?
2. Average flying hours a month? I assume around 70~80 hours a month? with 8~10 days off?
3. Time to go in command course? I read 1.5~2 years since its expanding. Also the passrate has gone up recently.
4. Intensity of training? I only have flown boeing and last 2 years I flew long haul most of time. I assume around 6 months for non airbus experienced pilots?
5. Living expense? I am thinking around 3000 USD to rent two bedrooms apartment and food and other stuff are dependent on how you manage it. I am still single so I wouldn't have to worry about raising family in HKG yet.
6. How many intake per year?
Thank you in advance
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Hi guys
I got a few questions about cathay dragon.
1. Actual salary - in website it's 77000 HKD + 22000(housing) and plus extra flight allowance I guess which is around 14000 USD per month in total?
2. Average flying hours a month? I assume around 70~80 hours a month? with 8~10 days off?
3. Time to go in command course? I read 1.5~2 years since its expanding. Also the passrate has gone up recently.
4. Intensity of training? I only have flown boeing and last 2 years I flew long haul most of time. I assume around 6 months for non airbus experienced pilots?
5. Living expense? I am thinking around 3000 USD to rent two bedrooms apartment and food and other stuff are dependent on how you manage it. I am still single so I wouldn't have to worry about raising family in HKG yet.
6. How many intake per year?
Thank you in advance
I got a few questions about cathay dragon.
1. Actual salary - in website it's 77000 HKD + 22000(housing) and plus extra flight allowance I guess which is around 14000 USD per month in total?
2. Average flying hours a month? I assume around 70~80 hours a month? with 8~10 days off?
3. Time to go in command course? I read 1.5~2 years since its expanding. Also the passrate has gone up recently.
4. Intensity of training? I only have flown boeing and last 2 years I flew long haul most of time. I assume around 6 months for non airbus experienced pilots?
5. Living expense? I am thinking around 3000 USD to rent two bedrooms apartment and food and other stuff are dependent on how you manage it. I am still single so I wouldn't have to worry about raising family in HKG yet.
6. How many intake per year?
Thank you in advance
2) Hours depend on fleet a little.
A320: 65-75 per month
A330: 70-85 per month
The difference being a crew shortage causing some overtime for A330 FO's. OT starts from 75.
3) The fastest command was circa 9 months recently but that guy had China and vast Airbus experience. Most people take 12 mo this to stop saying 'what's it doing now' + 6 months of command prep - limited by you *at the moment*
The pass rate has gone up a tad.
4) The training is intense. It was the first time I did not enjoy flying, though once on the line I enjoyed it. You will spend a few days doing conversion exams, a week in the office, then your type rating, then line training. The rating takes about 4 weeks, then with jet time you'll likely get 22 sectors plus a line check. Sectors start off with flights like a Phuket return and later you will be doing 40-120 min sectors in china on metric altitude around 12,000-15,000ft below optimum due traffic.
5) You can find cheap places to rent but they are cheap for a reason. Avoid Tung Chung. Around your figure (3000 USD) you should find something in DB, likely a bit more in mid-levels. You will spend $500 on a decent restaurant meal and $80-90 a pint in town (less at 7-11).
6) There is a large intake happening now and likely more next year for two reasons, 1) we are trying to expand & 2) standard contract people keep leaving once they realise just how expensive HK is. On a skipper salary it is possible to buy something after you get permanent residency (Google HK Buyers stamp duty) and save the 60% deposit for a $6,000,000 place. On an FO wage buying is impossible.
The people here are good to work with as an FO. Once you get your command it's much lonelier as the locals tend to just stay in their room on overnights. If you get a family, life is much tighter financially as you'll need extra space ($$$) to avoid suicide and school fees are eye wateringly expensive despite the allowance. Flying in China can be a drag with constant delays and stupidly low levels (it's noisy flying at 325 KIAS) though they are quite safe generally. The smog is a real drag between September and April then it's just the oppressive heat and humidity til September. When you can get on, the staff travel network is good but relatively expensive in the ID world.
Where are you coming from?
Hope that helps,
TSIO
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Double taxation?
There seems to be this ongoing myth that you have to pay two years tax AND it is in advance.
Not true.
What happens (in Oz at least) is the employer estimates your annual tax bill, based on earnings that week/fortnight/month and takes it from your weekly/fortnightly/monthly pay.
In Hong Kong you pay tax in arrears. So if you joined say April 1st 2017, around May 2018 you will have to fill out a form saying how much you earned for the previous tax year (1 April 2017-31 March 2018). They work out how much tax you owe, then they simply assume you will earn the same amount in April 2018-March 2019 tax year. So they charge you 'provisional' tax - but the point is, by the time you pay it, you have earned the income.
In this example, in Jan 2019, you will have to pay 100% of the tax you owe for the 2017-2018 tax year, and 75% of the tax you 'might' owe in the 2018-2019 tax year. It is paid in January which, coincidentally, is 9 months (or75%) through the tax year. You will have to pay 25% of the estimated 2018-19 tax in early April 2019 - just after you have had three more months pay!
So if say you earned 100K per month, tax is roughly 16.5% - so if you put away 16.5K per month away from DOJ, you will have all the money in hand to pay your tax in Jan 2019.
Clear as mud?
Not true.
What happens (in Oz at least) is the employer estimates your annual tax bill, based on earnings that week/fortnight/month and takes it from your weekly/fortnightly/monthly pay.
In Hong Kong you pay tax in arrears. So if you joined say April 1st 2017, around May 2018 you will have to fill out a form saying how much you earned for the previous tax year (1 April 2017-31 March 2018). They work out how much tax you owe, then they simply assume you will earn the same amount in April 2018-March 2019 tax year. So they charge you 'provisional' tax - but the point is, by the time you pay it, you have earned the income.
In this example, in Jan 2019, you will have to pay 100% of the tax you owe for the 2017-2018 tax year, and 75% of the tax you 'might' owe in the 2018-2019 tax year. It is paid in January which, coincidentally, is 9 months (or75%) through the tax year. You will have to pay 25% of the estimated 2018-19 tax in early April 2019 - just after you have had three more months pay!
So if say you earned 100K per month, tax is roughly 16.5% - so if you put away 16.5K per month away from DOJ, you will have all the money in hand to pay your tax in Jan 2019.
Clear as mud?
Kia ora,
Come on up cussie bro, a few Pakeha up here.
Expensive with wife or kids.
Hard work but rewarding. If it doesn't work out you have a free airbus rating and can leave.
Expensive with wife or kids.
I heard that if you have kids = no interview.
Don't plan on an upgrade, it will happen when you are ready and the $$$ will then be ok.
Expensive with wife or kids.
Kī tōnu taku waka topaki i te tuna.
Expensive with wife or kids.
Come on up cussie bro, a few Pakeha up here.
Expensive with wife or kids.
Hard work but rewarding. If it doesn't work out you have a free airbus rating and can leave.
Expensive with wife or kids.
I heard that if you have kids = no interview.
Don't plan on an upgrade, it will happen when you are ready and the $$$ will then be ok.
Expensive with wife or kids.
Kī tōnu taku waka topaki i te tuna.
Expensive with wife or kids.
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Hard work at times but alright as a job. Family on FO pay long term is hard if your partner doesn't work as well. As a Captain you can do alright for yourself here even as a single earner with a family, but you must get the command relatively soon. If you are single it is very easy to save a substantial amount of money every month just by living like a normal human being.
If you join now with good experience and put in the work you are looking at a crack at command very quickly. Graft will be required to get through this course, but it is doable. Don't pay too much attention to 'pass rates' as they have the unfortunate tendency to be all over the place. (Easier said than done) Good luck!
If you join now with good experience and put in the work you are looking at a crack at command very quickly. Graft will be required to get through this course, but it is doable. Don't pay too much attention to 'pass rates' as they have the unfortunate tendency to be all over the place. (Easier said than done) Good luck!
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who will look you in the eye as they press the elevator close door button. Some people like it but other than hiking and sports, there's very little to do. It's okay as a starting point but not desirable IMO.We have lived in south Lantau as well. It's beautiful there but traffic is getting worse and you MUST have a car as public transport can be difficult (e.g. Sundays in summer you will have to wait in a 200-300m line for the bus back to TC). You can rent one floor of a village house for 15k (700 sqft). The restaurants are pretty good and the hiking is fantastic. The trade off is that because it's a permit only area it is hard to get deliveries.
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Not PLUS US tax, as swh states. IF you're 'merican or have a Green Card, your US tax would be reduced by whatever you had to pay to HK, so you would not end up paying more tax than what you'd pay on that income if you'd be living in the USA. You'd probably pay less, due to the foreign earned income exclusion.
Evidently KA is being inundated with highly experienced pilots. These pilots must be attracted to KA because promotion is rapid and there's a perceived security under the CX banner that is better than the contract world.
A couple of important point that haven't been mentioned. The good ship Cathay is taking on water whichever way you look at it. We have been told to expect restructuring and restructuring has the potential to be dramatic. List mergers are back on the cards evidently; KA's Chief Pilot has been seconded to Cathay to work on synergies and operational meshing.
A new joiner at KA may think he's going to be seniority number 400 with a 12 month command prospect at KA but with one not unlikely announcement, could be seniority number 3400+ in a company losing a billion a year with a no likelihood of ever getting a command.
Be warned. Personally I hope the list merger doesn't happen but the 12 month command hyperbole could actually be a permanent First Officer position.
A couple of important point that haven't been mentioned. The good ship Cathay is taking on water whichever way you look at it. We have been told to expect restructuring and restructuring has the potential to be dramatic. List mergers are back on the cards evidently; KA's Chief Pilot has been seconded to Cathay to work on synergies and operational meshing.
A new joiner at KA may think he's going to be seniority number 400 with a 12 month command prospect at KA but with one not unlikely announcement, could be seniority number 3400+ in a company losing a billion a year with a no likelihood of ever getting a command.
Be warned. Personally I hope the list merger doesn't happen but the 12 month command hyperbole could actually be a permanent First Officer position.
Evidently KA is being inundated with highly experienced pilots.