KA tops the HKIA go around list

[betpump5]

I am also confused...

Exactly 'what' are we cheating?

I do recall some "I can p!ss further than you" stories regarding ex-TriStar Ops where you were considered inferior if thrust came up before 1000ft blah blah zzzz.

Is this what you are referring to?

[Gnadenburg]

Sorry to disappoint, but skygods wear hats in my experience !

Our handling co-pilots are often second officers with a few hundred hours. An effective way to draw them away from diving and driving their descent profiles is a few tips on how to descend a jet and a carte blanche to work their descent profiles back from a go-around.

It's actually a very effective confidence building technique in my experience. An inexperienced pilot, with a few hundred hours to a few thousand, sees profile dynamics create a better natural awareness of hi and low energy management, terrain, environment, traffic and by working back from a GA gate, a better tactical strategy in case that's what they have to do. Importantly too, perhaps relevant to this thread, they are not startled by ATC cutting them in significantly ( say 20 miles to run 7000' ) whereas the the pilot that is locked onto the VNAV is caught in the headlights in a fight or flight stress reaction.

I could bang on with more depth but really, I'm sure somewhere, someone is getting ready to ban the intercept from above technique from our operation.

[OK4Wire]

thrust came up before 1000ft blah blah zzzz.

What?! Are you joking!?

In my day (Classic - the old one, not the 330) it was 500' (max) and preferably over the threshold. Normal ops.

[OK4Wire]

Not disagreeing with you, CR; just saying how it used to be (with a touch of irony).

[Krone]

Gandey , you are rather pompous , if I may say. All your preaching , I bet you are a real live wire and a whopping fun guy.

You are wrong in one respect. Go arounds are now being written up by A320 captains when there is no need. I counted three ASRs re go arounds this month.
And another paranoia creeping in: ASRs for tcas TAs . I mean wtf.
I hate the 320 micro cosom.

[gearupmaxpower]

I trust you're referring to TA's?

An RA should always be an ASRable event.

[Krone]

Yes TAs , PAs n MAs

[WhatsaLizad?]

Yeah, that's so cool and all, but there are a lot of reasons why pilots don't do that anymore, and why companies, manufacturers, regulators and flight safety outfits all prevent pilots from operating that way: because it's not safe and still plenty of pilots hit or almost hit the ground proving it.

You mean bringing up the power at 1000' after a well planned idle power descent from cruise altitude? Obviously, the old "watch this" idle power dead-stick to touchdown demo was idiotic and unsafe.

[crwkunt roll]

You mean bringing up the power at 1000' after a well planned idle power descent from cruise altitude?

You mean when ATC allowed you to track direct to the FAF at high speed, without slowing to min speed, to hold, to speed up again, to hold again, to slow down again, then add a couple of radar vectors for good measure?

[Metro man]

It was known as "The formaldehyde glide."

(Embalming fluid)

[iceman50]

Gnadenburg

I could bang on with more depth but really, I'm sure somewhere, someone is getting ready to ban the intercept from above technique from our operation. 13th Mar 2017 01:52

Yes that is a really good TECHNIQUE, heard of a false glideslope? The technique shoud be from BELOW! Sounds like you run your own flying circus.

[WhatsaLizad?]

crwkunt roll,


Obviously the plan won't work at LHR, JFK and probably most other large city airports. Too much jerking around as mentioned. I took the previous comments in terms of airports where little traffic permitted unrestricted descents from altitude to landing. Probably the realm of narrow body aircraft and rare for the heavies. And it definitely shouldn't conflict with required final stabilized (power up) altitudes in regards to SOP's and conditions such as spool up time.


Even in the narrow bodies at my US carrier it is a lost art. Some seem lost without a Flight Director, dive down at 3000' fpm to drone along at 4000' and heaven forbid, are lost on a simple circle to land box pattern without attempting to draw stick figures in the FMS for the ND. My last one was a hyper female FO. "But, but, but, how are you going to know when to turn right base when you can't see the runway!!!!"
I simply explained that I picked out a building below far in advance for a base leg turn. She seem lost at the concept. I did brief her on my visual approach plan. A constant 800-900 fpm 180 turn to final. It does take practice, and it is surely tough to do if not impossible for the long haul heavy crews.

[Gnadenburg]

Gnadenburg
Yes that is a really good TECHNIQUE, heard of a false glideslope? The technique shoud be from BELOW! Sounds like you run your own flying circus.

Yes. The "false" G/S capture is a threat. The 9 degree lobe the first ? That scenario will involve a very obvious set of circumstances with a high rate of descent. What is the likelihood of a false G/S capture and what is the vertical geometry at 9 degrees?

You are correct, an easy defense against the False G/S capture is to intercept at the IAF and do a OM altitude check. But airspace is complicated and in KA's op's it is very normal to intercept the G/S beyond the IAF or before.

There is also the insidious threat of the "erroneous" G/S which in some circumstances a FAF or OM crosscheck or even a GPWS won't save you. Perhaps with the advent of GPS this is no longer addressed. It was certainly a threat in the olden days, before GPS and certainly in the China / Asia-Pacific region. But in those days pilots may have been more profile conscious and the intercept from above wasn't frowned upon ( as you are suggesting it is now due a very remote chance of a false G/S capture ).

Anyways, back to the scenario where you may have to intercept from above. A pilot who is executing this process in a safe and measured manner will need to have a continuous profile awareness of DME versus altitude- countering both erroneous and false G/S threats. From what I've observed, the dive and drive guys can be half asleep and rely on a single G/S altitude check.

Iceman what other core pilot skills do you want banned from the Flying Circus at KA? The circling approach, the visual approach, the intercept from above, the raw data ILS, non-VNAV descents…….?

If you're an F/O at CX, at KA, they are training your replacement within 12 months, a Captain, it can be 4 years. And that's with some sort of modest expectation of delivering what you seem to deem a Flying Circus skill-set. Reduce it much more an we are on terms with Air Asia.