Fuel email
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 725
Likes: 0
From: VHHH Ocean 2D
Why anyone (especially those with a Red Lanyard) was taking more than Flight Plan fuel is beyond me. During bad wx,we get extra. During good weather, its performance based contingency. If you divert, let the company deal with the knock on effects.
Taking more than FP Fuel is not good for Contract Compliance.
And to those Breitling lovers taking 1.5T extra on every flight - Wtf guys. Seriously.
Taking more than FP Fuel is not good for Contract Compliance.
And to those Breitling lovers taking 1.5T extra on every flight - Wtf guys. Seriously.
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 507
Likes: 43
From: US
Steppin' over dollars
Picking up pennies
Most folks do this anyway -- CFP fuel and adjusting for zfw changes.
Wonder how much the new report cards will cost. But maybe it'll make someone feel better about something somewhere.
Picking up pennies
Most folks do this anyway -- CFP fuel and adjusting for zfw changes.
Wonder how much the new report cards will cost. But maybe it'll make someone feel better about something somewhere.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 46
Likes: 1
From: Happy Valley
Professional?
So we are 'accountable and professionals'.......
Pray why does this not apply to the muppets on the 7-9th floor that are driving this Company into the cumulo-granite?
Once again this e-mail merely confirms that it is all about the Fuel Hedge.....Doh.
Sorry seems to be the hardest word......
Pray why does this not apply to the muppets on the 7-9th floor that are driving this Company into the cumulo-granite?
Once again this e-mail merely confirms that it is all about the Fuel Hedge.....Doh.
Sorry seems to be the hardest word......
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 322
Likes: 0
From: Hong Kong
Why anyone (especially those with a Red Lanyard) was taking more than Flight Plan fuel is beyond me. During bad wx,we get extra. During good weather, its performance based contingency. If you divert, let the company deal with the knock on effects.
Taking more than FP Fuel is not good for Contract Compliance.
Taking more than FP Fuel is not good for Contract Compliance.
It's that attitude that's helping the company turn us into complete button pushers.
What if they don't give you extra and you're given a close in alternate at a place where the TAFs are not very dependable, like HKG, SIN, KUL, CGK, SGN, etc Then what? Do you then use your red lanyard and pray to god that all goes well because you were too stupid to use your brain for once and load more than CFP?
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,542
Likes: 5
From: London
You nailed it Dragon. Very disappointing to see yet another level of intimidation being imposed. I'll take the fuel I believe I need, based on experience and common sense. Couldn't care less about 'averages' and 'shaded areas'. This place becomes more pathetic by the week. 
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 419
Likes: 18
From: Retired-ville
Traf & Dragon - spot on!
I've never (apart from Cat B etc) taken more fuel than I needed, and I've never departed with less fuel than I feel comfortable with.
I did choose to voluntarily receive the "where t f am I on the fuel carry list", but that was not because I was concerned about if I was taking too much/too little, it was merely a passing interest to see where I sat.
I did not change my attitude to taking fuel, or reducing it, I continue to do what feels both right, safe and commercially correct.
But for other crew now having these figures rammed down their throat, I'm concerned about the not so subtle pressure being applied to some individuals who through either lack of spine or an un-natural desire to be submissive, will start to take less than is safe.
I've never (apart from Cat B etc) taken more fuel than I needed, and I've never departed with less fuel than I feel comfortable with.
I did choose to voluntarily receive the "where t f am I on the fuel carry list", but that was not because I was concerned about if I was taking too much/too little, it was merely a passing interest to see where I sat.
I did not change my attitude to taking fuel, or reducing it, I continue to do what feels both right, safe and commercially correct.
But for other crew now having these figures rammed down their throat, I'm concerned about the not so subtle pressure being applied to some individuals who through either lack of spine or an un-natural desire to be submissive, will start to take less than is safe.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,542
Likes: 5
From: London
Well, the real joke of the matter is that our esteemed fuel hedging 'team' has thrown away about 20 years of pilot effort savings in two short years. Don't seem to see them held accountable. The slow but steady decent to destruction of the once great CX is well and truly unavoidable at this point. Good luck with your careers to those who still have enough years for it to matter.
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Oops
I read as far as "accurate risk management" and "operational excellence" and figured MH had sent the email to the wrong person. I didn't lose billions on inaccurate risk management.
I forwarded MH's email to those responsible. [email protected] and hedge_hogg @cathaypacific.com
Just smile and wave boys.... Smile and wave.
I forwarded MH's email to those responsible. [email protected] and hedge_hogg @cathaypacific.com
Just smile and wave boys.... Smile and wave.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,124
Likes: 16
From: GC Paradise
We have been through the fuel intimidation rigmarole before from management and it didn't work.
Just remember that by law, it is the Captain's decision to carry adequate fuel for the intended flight.
The Captain's decision cannot be over-ridden or delegated.
The Company may own the aircraft, but the Captain is solely responsible for his operation of said aircraft.
Just remember that by law, it is the Captain's decision to carry adequate fuel for the intended flight.
The Captain's decision cannot be over-ridden or delegated.
The Company may own the aircraft, but the Captain is solely responsible for his operation of said aircraft.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,609
Likes: 0
From: Asia
They've been tracking individual captains fuel figures for years. The implied intimidation of this tracking has always been there. The fact I now get an email is of a passing interest but won't change my final fuel decision process.
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
From: America
MH simply cannot help himself. He gave up his family and life for this place. He, like the rest of the third floor, are simply mad scientists running amuck. Of course he does not have to fly the line daily into places like North America during winter snow storms. He just gets to tell you how to do it. Remember his days as C.P.?
He could have just said job well done, thanks for being safe but no, cannot la.
Again, they can't help themselves. Imagine giving up your soul to be in management here.
He could have just said job well done, thanks for being safe but no, cannot la.
Again, they can't help themselves. Imagine giving up your soul to be in management here.
Last edited by The Visionary; 11th January 2017 at 04:15.
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 388
Likes: 0
From: uk
Spleener will correct me if I'm wrong but ....
........I suspect he/she was making the point of there's no NTC an email from anyone ain't worth jack !!!!!.
Last edited by Starbear; 12th January 2017 at 04:45.
Joined: Jun 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 2,238
Likes: 218
From: Eden Valley
KA totally reversed its fuel pressure policy toward one of command responsibility and airmanship. It was quite warming and inevitable really.
Common sense prevailed; I'm guessing it gets pretty hard to sleep at night as management when your bottom 5% blast from A to B then onto C on min fuel.
Common sense prevailed; I'm guessing it gets pretty hard to sleep at night as management when your bottom 5% blast from A to B then onto C on min fuel.