You think CMP is for us?
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You think CMP is for us?
I can't believe anyone believes the CMP is being set up to give us better rosters. I think they are only getting it (over the next few years) because their ancient systems will no longer be supported by the vendor and they have no other choice. It's certainly not to give us what we want, or else they would just let us handle rostering ourselves, wouldn't they?
FROM 2005. Please forward it to your friends:
Investing in Crew Management
Cathay Pacific will not be celebrating its 60th anniversary with its new crew management software. But Cathay Pacific’s Chris Hoyland believes the wait will have been worth it. He tells Phin Foster about the advantages the software will bring.
In June 2005, Cathay Pacific announced that it would be replacing its current crew control mainframe system with a sophisticated software solution. Developed in conjunction with Fujitsu Honk Kong, the airline said that its new program would enhance decision support capability and improve the speed and accuracy of its crew tracking.
However, despite initially forecasting that the program would be launched this year, just in time for the airline's 60th birthday celebrations, Cathay Pacific now expects final implementation to take place in early 2007.
A DRAWN-OUT PROCESS
The delay does not seem to have caused Cathay Pacific's manager of integrated crew management, Chris Hoyland, too much concern. With over 30 years' experience in airline operations, he is not a man to be unduly flustered. Any interruption should be minimal.
"A detailed design process for the large amount of company-specific functionality and customisation required began in early 2005 and development started midway through the same year," explains Hoyland. "Initial end-user familiarisation has already begun and the straightforward, intuitive nature of the system means that the training process should be relatively short."
"Ongoing expansion has highlighted the need for better, faster and more comprehensive tools."
It is too late in the day to lose faith now. The commission for crew control system (CCS) development was the result of a lengthy research and 'request for proposal' process. Cathay Pacific had to fully research all the main, commercially available products before it was ready to compile a shortlist of vendors.
The airline then invited each of the firms to make a presentation and demonstration, on top of their initial written proposals.
The final selection was aided by the use of a complex matrix scoring system, grading each vendor for quality, completeness, level of fit and cost. It took over a year to evaluate the systems on offer. After all that, one can appreciate why a slight delay might seem tolerable.
WORTH THE WAIT
Hoyland certainly believes that the UNIX-based solution will have been worth the wait. The frequent long-haul flights across time zones, coupled with the airline's basing policy, makes efficient crew management under current flight travel limitations increasingly difficult.
"For years we have used an in-house, text-based mainframe system," explains Hoyland. "But ongoing expansion – as well as the increasing complexity of rules, both legal and industrial – has highlighted the need for better, faster and more comprehensive tools to manage this task."
Cathay Pacific has embarked on an extensive fleet expansion programme and should be running 101 wide-body aircraft by the end of the year.
Commitments have also been made to purchase 16 advanced wide-body Boeing 777-300ER aircraft, with purchase rights for 20 more, and to lease three Airbus A330-300s. Such development plans should result in increased staff requirements. Efficient, effective crew management is becoming more of a pressing concern than ever.
The key function of the CCS will be to ensure that all legal, company and industrial rules governing flight crew activities are strictly followed and inadvertent contravention avoided. This is not, however, the main reason for the airline's decision to overhaul its system.
"We are confident that our present setup enables us to be 100% compliant with the necessary regulations," explains Hoyland, "but not always in the most timely or efficient way."
ADDED BENEFITS
Putting existing resources to better use through increased efficiency and better decision support has proved far more of a catalyst than regulatory requirements. Besides the obvious benefits of cutting down on manual data input and reducing intervention due to automated data capture and manipulation, Hoyland is excited by further opportunities that the software has to offer.
"We anticipate considerable benefits from more comprehensive rule-checking ability and 'what if ' modelling," he says. "Ultimately, we can make more timely decisions through the graphical user interface presentation of information and decision support functionality. The system will promote better communication of necessary information both within crew control and with other departments."
"The expected increase in efficiency will allow rationalisation of the crew control manning levels."
There are a number of features and tools that Hoyland sees as being of great potential benefit: "A prime requisite of the replacement system was the 'drag and drop' graphical manipulation of light and crew pattern data to replace our existing text only tools."
He cites other useful innovations, such as the provision of real-time management reporting, enhanced filtering and sorting tools, and decision support for such tasks as best standby selection.
Cathay Pacific's specially customised version allows for the complete automation of its crew allowance payment and will include advanced crew training management functionality.
HUGE INVESTMENT
Such technical jargon might seem rather incomprehensible, but Hoyland also describes the benefits of the UNIX-based solution in a language understood by all: money. He refuses to give a precise dollar value of the contract with Fujitsu Hong Kong, but concedes that 'it is a large investment by any measure'. In terms of cash and resource involvement, this certainly ranks as one of the largest ever software instalments within Cathay Pacific.
Beyond the short-term expenditure, Hoyland says the investment will save costs and help generate revenue. Reductions in crew cost, resulting from better standby management and fewer crew-related delays, should reap instant rewards and the new software can also help keep additional outlays down.
"The expected increase in efficiency will allow rationalisation of the crew control manning levels and minimise the number of additional staff required," explains Hoyland. "Additional savings are expected from system maintenance and change implementation simplification."
DESIGNED TO BE FLEXIBLE
Eras of growth often usher in periods of uncertainty, and operations and focus can shift accordingly. It is therefore essential that the new system can adapt to any changes in requirements. As part of the project, a great deal of time and effort has been spent on making the system as future proof as possible. It has been designed to be extremely flexible.
"Wherever practical, rule and system settings are parameterised and user configurable," explains Hoyland. "The concept of user configurable masks, and filters for use in rules, makes it possible to create new rules for different groups of crew as required."
Hoyland is certainly keeping one eye on the future. Running concurrently with the crew control project, a separate initiative is underway to enhance and upgrade the crew rostering system. Further augmentation is also planned for the airline's pattern optimiser and crew communication systems, with a new project to fully automate training reporting and tracking starting shortly.
Cathay Pacific will have to celebrate its 60th birthday without its new CCS system up and running, but it should be a present worth waiting for.
With a more efficient staff rostering system, Cathay’s service will remain top class, even as the airline expands.
Cathay Pacific expects the new software to make the deployment of resources a much more efficient process.
FROM 2005. Please forward it to your friends:
Investing in Crew Management
Cathay Pacific will not be celebrating its 60th anniversary with its new crew management software. But Cathay Pacific’s Chris Hoyland believes the wait will have been worth it. He tells Phin Foster about the advantages the software will bring.
In June 2005, Cathay Pacific announced that it would be replacing its current crew control mainframe system with a sophisticated software solution. Developed in conjunction with Fujitsu Honk Kong, the airline said that its new program would enhance decision support capability and improve the speed and accuracy of its crew tracking.
However, despite initially forecasting that the program would be launched this year, just in time for the airline's 60th birthday celebrations, Cathay Pacific now expects final implementation to take place in early 2007.
A DRAWN-OUT PROCESS
The delay does not seem to have caused Cathay Pacific's manager of integrated crew management, Chris Hoyland, too much concern. With over 30 years' experience in airline operations, he is not a man to be unduly flustered. Any interruption should be minimal.
"A detailed design process for the large amount of company-specific functionality and customisation required began in early 2005 and development started midway through the same year," explains Hoyland. "Initial end-user familiarisation has already begun and the straightforward, intuitive nature of the system means that the training process should be relatively short."
"Ongoing expansion has highlighted the need for better, faster and more comprehensive tools."
It is too late in the day to lose faith now. The commission for crew control system (CCS) development was the result of a lengthy research and 'request for proposal' process. Cathay Pacific had to fully research all the main, commercially available products before it was ready to compile a shortlist of vendors.
The airline then invited each of the firms to make a presentation and demonstration, on top of their initial written proposals.
The final selection was aided by the use of a complex matrix scoring system, grading each vendor for quality, completeness, level of fit and cost. It took over a year to evaluate the systems on offer. After all that, one can appreciate why a slight delay might seem tolerable.
WORTH THE WAIT
Hoyland certainly believes that the UNIX-based solution will have been worth the wait. The frequent long-haul flights across time zones, coupled with the airline's basing policy, makes efficient crew management under current flight travel limitations increasingly difficult.
"For years we have used an in-house, text-based mainframe system," explains Hoyland. "But ongoing expansion – as well as the increasing complexity of rules, both legal and industrial – has highlighted the need for better, faster and more comprehensive tools to manage this task."
Cathay Pacific has embarked on an extensive fleet expansion programme and should be running 101 wide-body aircraft by the end of the year.
Commitments have also been made to purchase 16 advanced wide-body Boeing 777-300ER aircraft, with purchase rights for 20 more, and to lease three Airbus A330-300s. Such development plans should result in increased staff requirements. Efficient, effective crew management is becoming more of a pressing concern than ever.
The key function of the CCS will be to ensure that all legal, company and industrial rules governing flight crew activities are strictly followed and inadvertent contravention avoided. This is not, however, the main reason for the airline's decision to overhaul its system.
"We are confident that our present setup enables us to be 100% compliant with the necessary regulations," explains Hoyland, "but not always in the most timely or efficient way."
ADDED BENEFITS
Putting existing resources to better use through increased efficiency and better decision support has proved far more of a catalyst than regulatory requirements. Besides the obvious benefits of cutting down on manual data input and reducing intervention due to automated data capture and manipulation, Hoyland is excited by further opportunities that the software has to offer.
"We anticipate considerable benefits from more comprehensive rule-checking ability and 'what if ' modelling," he says. "Ultimately, we can make more timely decisions through the graphical user interface presentation of information and decision support functionality. The system will promote better communication of necessary information both within crew control and with other departments."
"The expected increase in efficiency will allow rationalisation of the crew control manning levels."
There are a number of features and tools that Hoyland sees as being of great potential benefit: "A prime requisite of the replacement system was the 'drag and drop' graphical manipulation of light and crew pattern data to replace our existing text only tools."
He cites other useful innovations, such as the provision of real-time management reporting, enhanced filtering and sorting tools, and decision support for such tasks as best standby selection.
Cathay Pacific's specially customised version allows for the complete automation of its crew allowance payment and will include advanced crew training management functionality.
HUGE INVESTMENT
Such technical jargon might seem rather incomprehensible, but Hoyland also describes the benefits of the UNIX-based solution in a language understood by all: money. He refuses to give a precise dollar value of the contract with Fujitsu Hong Kong, but concedes that 'it is a large investment by any measure'. In terms of cash and resource involvement, this certainly ranks as one of the largest ever software instalments within Cathay Pacific.
Beyond the short-term expenditure, Hoyland says the investment will save costs and help generate revenue. Reductions in crew cost, resulting from better standby management and fewer crew-related delays, should reap instant rewards and the new software can also help keep additional outlays down.
"The expected increase in efficiency will allow rationalisation of the crew control manning levels and minimise the number of additional staff required," explains Hoyland. "Additional savings are expected from system maintenance and change implementation simplification."
DESIGNED TO BE FLEXIBLE
Eras of growth often usher in periods of uncertainty, and operations and focus can shift accordingly. It is therefore essential that the new system can adapt to any changes in requirements. As part of the project, a great deal of time and effort has been spent on making the system as future proof as possible. It has been designed to be extremely flexible.
"Wherever practical, rule and system settings are parameterised and user configurable," explains Hoyland. "The concept of user configurable masks, and filters for use in rules, makes it possible to create new rules for different groups of crew as required."
Hoyland is certainly keeping one eye on the future. Running concurrently with the crew control project, a separate initiative is underway to enhance and upgrade the crew rostering system. Further augmentation is also planned for the airline's pattern optimiser and crew communication systems, with a new project to fully automate training reporting and tracking starting shortly.
Cathay Pacific will have to celebrate its 60th birthday without its new CCS system up and running, but it should be a present worth waiting for.
With a more efficient staff rostering system, Cathay’s service will remain top class, even as the airline expands.
Cathay Pacific expects the new software to make the deployment of resources a much more efficient process.
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Dapper Dan, I believe a few are starting to realise that the CMP can give us better rosters and the company higher productivity.
Although CX will try to sell it to us as an $800 million project that is for our benefit, they will only invest if they can see a return.
If CX directors intend to restore a balanced relationship, then we will see a deal.
Although CX will try to sell it to us as an $800 million project that is for our benefit, they will only invest if they can see a return.
If CX directors intend to restore a balanced relationship, then we will see a deal.
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the point is...we heard the same 'promises' back in 2005 (notice the date of the statement). I sadly suspect that in another 11 years we will still be hearing the same 'imminent' promise of a better system. Unless we finally stand up and say enough (how about you Goathead?)
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T,
Respectfully 99% of the people in CX have never worked at an airline with a CMP.
What you have now is not a CMP, it is costing them a lot of money because it is very inefficient. The current system has partial crashes on a daily basis. It does not cope.
The person who selected that system told people he knew what he was doing. The new CMP vendors have shown he has cost the airline a lot of money and also it's ability to grow.
It's inefficient because a person mentioned in that article like many long serving CX and Swire employees have been more concerned about empire building in their own department rather than what is best for the airline.
The CMP will see most of the CC empire reassigned. Most roster changes and reserve callouts will be fully automatic.
CX has so many pilots that have no idea about what a CMP is, if you want to learn the real substance contact your AOA director of rostering.
Now if you want to end up with a s$&t system, concentrate on the past and don't get involved with the development.
There is a good post on the forums what happens when a pilot body is kept napping concentrating on the past and lost sight of what is needed from their CMP. The results are horrible.
It's your choice (not the GC, not the company) to take charge now and voice what you want as an end result. Otherwise you will end up what you are given and it will not be pretty.
It's "easier" to get things included during development next to impossible once rolled out.
You have been warned.
Respectfully 99% of the people in CX have never worked at an airline with a CMP.
What you have now is not a CMP, it is costing them a lot of money because it is very inefficient. The current system has partial crashes on a daily basis. It does not cope.
The person who selected that system told people he knew what he was doing. The new CMP vendors have shown he has cost the airline a lot of money and also it's ability to grow.
It's inefficient because a person mentioned in that article like many long serving CX and Swire employees have been more concerned about empire building in their own department rather than what is best for the airline.
The CMP will see most of the CC empire reassigned. Most roster changes and reserve callouts will be fully automatic.
CX has so many pilots that have no idea about what a CMP is, if you want to learn the real substance contact your AOA director of rostering.
Now if you want to end up with a s$&t system, concentrate on the past and don't get involved with the development.
There is a good post on the forums what happens when a pilot body is kept napping concentrating on the past and lost sight of what is needed from their CMP. The results are horrible.
It's your choice (not the GC, not the company) to take charge now and voice what you want as an end result. Otherwise you will end up what you are given and it will not be pretty.
It's "easier" to get things included during development next to impossible once rolled out.
You have been warned.
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CR,
Respectfully I disagree and urge you to speak to the director of rostering.
A CMP if setup properly can do lots of "nice" things at no cost. For example if you need a a day off to support your wife going into hospital for a medical test, the system could automatically move things around without manual intervention.
The CMP will change the way the rosters are built. The current system tries to have people on duty more days a month to get 84 hrs. It builds very inefficient and unstable rosters.
A CMP will look at optimising the average work day to x number of hours. People on the 777 will see little change, however people on the 747/Airbus should see their average day of work have more hours, therefore more days off. This would change from instead of doing a TPE turn or split for 5 hrs credit it changes to two 3 sectors days giving you 18 hrs credit.
It does not take a PhD to see that with a CMP all pilots more efficient days at work, and as a byproduct more days off. A better work/life balance.
A person on a regional fleet could have their month of flying done in 10 days. Today pilots on the regional fleets are normally rostered to 9 days off. With the first solution you can see how there will be scope to move days around as there are more non work days a month, the current solution pilots cannot swap flights as there are no days off.
So what happens now if someone wants to be with their wife while they go to hospital the only thing they can do is call sick.
The people who are most against a CMP are those on the 777 who think it's only their right to have a work life balance. This insults pilots on other fleets significantly, especially those who have people junior to them on the 777.
Most crew controllers will be replaced with this, it does not rely on lots of manual roster changes.
The people who are going to be worse off are the ones that do deals in the current system that lacks transparency. They won't be able to do deals to work days off or to get long layovers at particular destinations out of seniority.
Respectfully I disagree and urge you to speak to the director of rostering.
A CMP if setup properly can do lots of "nice" things at no cost. For example if you need a a day off to support your wife going into hospital for a medical test, the system could automatically move things around without manual intervention.
The CMP will change the way the rosters are built. The current system tries to have people on duty more days a month to get 84 hrs. It builds very inefficient and unstable rosters.
A CMP will look at optimising the average work day to x number of hours. People on the 777 will see little change, however people on the 747/Airbus should see their average day of work have more hours, therefore more days off. This would change from instead of doing a TPE turn or split for 5 hrs credit it changes to two 3 sectors days giving you 18 hrs credit.
It does not take a PhD to see that with a CMP all pilots more efficient days at work, and as a byproduct more days off. A better work/life balance.
A person on a regional fleet could have their month of flying done in 10 days. Today pilots on the regional fleets are normally rostered to 9 days off. With the first solution you can see how there will be scope to move days around as there are more non work days a month, the current solution pilots cannot swap flights as there are no days off.
So what happens now if someone wants to be with their wife while they go to hospital the only thing they can do is call sick.
The people who are most against a CMP are those on the 777 who think it's only their right to have a work life balance. This insults pilots on other fleets significantly, especially those who have people junior to them on the 777.
Most crew controllers will be replaced with this, it does not rely on lots of manual roster changes.
The people who are going to be worse off are the ones that do deals in the current system that lacks transparency. They won't be able to do deals to work days off or to get long layovers at particular destinations out of seniority.
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CR
If you do nothing about this now, ie voice what you want to out of it. It will be exactly as you describe. And the only person to blame will be yourself.
Stop acting like the battered wife, and do something about it. Speak or email your director of rostering.
I have given clear warnings above, if you only bitch and complain about the past, you will get the system you deserve. It will be your fault and your fault alone.
There are three ways this can turn out, like the current system which is lose-lose for the company and us, win-lose where we get screwed over, or win-win.
If you want just bitch and complain about the past instead of looking to the future standby for win-lose.
If you do nothing about this now, ie voice what you want to out of it. It will be exactly as you describe. And the only person to blame will be yourself.
Stop acting like the battered wife, and do something about it. Speak or email your director of rostering.
I have given clear warnings above, if you only bitch and complain about the past, you will get the system you deserve. It will be your fault and your fault alone.
There are three ways this can turn out, like the current system which is lose-lose for the company and us, win-lose where we get screwed over, or win-win.
If you want just bitch and complain about the past instead of looking to the future standby for win-lose.
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CR,
You deserve a crap CMP. It's your responsibility not anyone else to make this happen. Every post of yours you are the victim. I am sick of it. Do something about it, stop the bitching.
Frank,
The company does not have anyone with experience with the CMP, it's being driven mainly by 3 people from the AOA. It's the vendors that are putting it together. After it is in place any changes will more likely be done by CX so they won't work because the people who make the changes will have the intelligence of CR. Get what you want now, that will set the base level for future benchmarks for horse trading.
You deserve a crap CMP. It's your responsibility not anyone else to make this happen. Every post of yours you are the victim. I am sick of it. Do something about it, stop the bitching.
Frank,
The company does not have anyone with experience with the CMP, it's being driven mainly by 3 people from the AOA. It's the vendors that are putting it together. After it is in place any changes will more likely be done by CX so they won't work because the people who make the changes will have the intelligence of CR. Get what you want now, that will set the base level for future benchmarks for horse trading.
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A CMP WILL bring the company great gains in flexibility, efficiency and money.
A CMP CAN bring us great gains in terms of improved rostering, lyfestyle and money.
One is guaranteed, not the other. It behooves us to be closely involved in its implementation.
A CMP CAN bring us great gains in terms of improved rostering, lyfestyle and money.
One is guaranteed, not the other. It behooves us to be closely involved in its implementation.
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Eyes, how is it a line pilot's responsibility to "make this happen?"
I believe the company is selecting it, paying for it and controlling it.
CR, Trafalgar, Yonosoy and Frank seem to see this the way I do. Why do you think we are being told it will be great, as long as we are involved - but only if we supported the TA? Now, they don't need or want AOA input, is that right?
I believe the company is selecting it, paying for it and controlling it.
CR, Trafalgar, Yonosoy and Frank seem to see this the way I do. Why do you think we are being told it will be great, as long as we are involved - but only if we supported the TA? Now, they don't need or want AOA input, is that right?
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CR, The days of "carrots" should be over, the result from the latest TA goes some way to demonstrate that.
This will only benefit all parties if there is a signed agreement, clause 7 not needed nor included.
This will only benefit all parties if there is a signed agreement, clause 7 not needed nor included.
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The end user pays. Its as simple as that. CX will be the end user and they will get all the benefits. Any benefits passed on to the crew will only be pure coincidence and not designed. You are naïve to believe they are doing this for us. Its simple they are doing it because an increase in 600 pilots in the next year will overlaod the current crew schedulers and the crew schedulers are all working weekends including Sunday in order to get the rosters out by 9 pm on the 15th of each month.
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Eyes Only:
"Stop acting like the battered wife, and do something about it. Speak or email your director of rostering.
I have given clear warnings above, if you only bitch and complain about the past, you will get the system you deserve. It will be your fault and your fault alone."
Just what is it you want?? Just how many 10s of thousands of times over the years do you think crew members have "spoken to or eMailed rostering managers" ?? And to what end?
Your warning, "if you only bitch and complain" (you mean eMail or Speak out as you recommend); what would you have crew do? Go upstairs and rub the backs of those same managers.
"Stop acting like the battered wife, and do something about it. Speak or email your director of rostering.
I have given clear warnings above, if you only bitch and complain about the past, you will get the system you deserve. It will be your fault and your fault alone."
Just what is it you want?? Just how many 10s of thousands of times over the years do you think crew members have "spoken to or eMailed rostering managers" ?? And to what end?
Your warning, "if you only bitch and complain" (you mean eMail or Speak out as you recommend); what would you have crew do? Go upstairs and rub the backs of those same managers.
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25 years ago the ancient software of the SoftTouch system identified the problem with any CMP employed by CX... 'Not enough crew to carry out task'... the powers that be didn't believe it then, and they won't believe it now... As so ably proved by the management strata in CX: Garbage In=Garbage Out.
