The training ban home goal
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Honky
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The training ban home goal
Great work with the training ban, upgrades are getting cancelled/delayed and therefore every SO (and FO) is taking a paycut. "Short term pain for long term gain"...... bulls##t, we will be in CC for years. Maybe the SOs and FOs should be compensated or get a few years of free AOA membership to make up for the paycut we are taking.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The sky
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Look, i get it you may be new to the airline world but this is how things work.
Its called collecive bargining for a reason, you may feel the delay now but things will get better, youll see. This company will cave id guess by 4th q 2016 before they have to post negitive numbers from the fuel and unstaffed airbus airframes.
Yes basically we are taking the heat now for our future and others but thats how we improve the industry as a whole. If you dont like it get out and find a different airline or get out of the AoA. You dont have to pay union dues if you do not want to. Your peers are members and brothers in this place and unity is the way. Take it from us who have been through this before.
Its called collecive bargining for a reason, you may feel the delay now but things will get better, youll see. This company will cave id guess by 4th q 2016 before they have to post negitive numbers from the fuel and unstaffed airbus airframes.
Yes basically we are taking the heat now for our future and others but thats how we improve the industry as a whole. If you dont like it get out and find a different airline or get out of the AoA. You dont have to pay union dues if you do not want to. Your peers are members and brothers in this place and unity is the way. Take it from us who have been through this before.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: the land of chocolate
Posts: 439
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The SO's and the FO's will benefit the most from the CC in the long run.
It's more their fight than anyone else's.
If we don't take a stand now, our COS will continue to be cut, cut, cut.
It's more their fight than anyone else's.
If we don't take a stand now, our COS will continue to be cut, cut, cut.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: somewhere above the sea
Posts: 199
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nice try Dom, you still don't get it though.
The 3% that were still engaged when you did your last survey have given up too. Nobody cares buddy, you're so far on the back of the power curve I really don't think you've got enough gas to overcome the problems.
CC for years.....that might mean something if anyone actually gave a sh1t anymore.
The 3% that were still engaged when you did your last survey have given up too. Nobody cares buddy, you're so far on the back of the power curve I really don't think you've got enough gas to overcome the problems.
CC for years.....that might mean something if anyone actually gave a sh1t anymore.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Honky
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oasis
That's not true at all, SO's and FO's are carrying the full load here. Captains aren't losing 1 cent, while everyone else has to take a paycut. For those of us struggling to pay rent it's a big deal.
That's not true at all, SO's and FO's are carrying the full load here. Captains aren't losing 1 cent, while everyone else has to take a paycut. For those of us struggling to pay rent it's a big deal.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So true Rod. Dom probably doesn't even know what drag is, except as it pertains to his excel spreadsheets on crew "management". This airline is run by bean counters, not industry savvy leaders or even airline enthusiasts. There is no long term vision, only short term bonuses with just enough medium term planning to avoid blame before parachuting out of the Company.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: uk
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
xwindldg. Don't think for one second that FO's and SO 's are carrying all the load from the training ban . Capt's ((well most ) aren't taking the pay increase to join C&T so they are paying the price as well.
Everyone in this company is dealing with reduced salaries and COS which is what we are fighting to protect . I came across the published salary pay scales from 1996 a few days ago, the reductions from 1996 to today are stark and very painful and that is just a side by side comparison not taking inflation into account . So unless you want to be working for slave wages during your career I would suggest that you join the fight instead of moaning about those that are trying to help you
Everyone in this company is dealing with reduced salaries and COS which is what we are fighting to protect . I came across the published salary pay scales from 1996 a few days ago, the reductions from 1996 to today are stark and very painful and that is just a side by side comparison not taking inflation into account . So unless you want to be working for slave wages during your career I would suggest that you join the fight instead of moaning about those that are trying to help you
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Asia
Posts: 248
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Xwindldg, correct me or is the upgrade time at the moment under 3 years? This is some of the shortest apprentice times in the S/O seat I can remember. And to be honest, looking at experiance levels, it's the group that can benefit most from a longer apprenticeship.
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Here
Posts: 464
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey Dom do you resent getting less housing than most senior pilots? After all, what did you sign up for? Didn't we tell you that you should probably consider a position in another Swine company which didn't have pilots to compare allowances with?
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Here ---> X
Posts: 438
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For those of us struggling to pay rent it's a big deal.
Are new S/Os and cadets these days joining to lose money the first few years in hope for a quick upgrade? Is that how they sell it?
If anything, you should consider yourself lucky. Upgrades times are quick these days, even WITH the training ban. SO to FO was 4 years not too long ago, and might be again when the next crisis arrives.
But I suppose you're part of that new generation that wants it all, right now, screw the others...
One of these guys who constantly complains about being an SO and the **** deal he's getting but would rather we'd all quit fighting for better conditions for his immediate benefit.
Cry me a river.
An aviation career is messy. It's a step back for each two steps forward. Some are lucky, some aren't. Sometimes things work for you, sometimes they don't.
If you think you're getting unfairly treated, try asking around to see how many guys have been held back in their careers for being furloughed, for working with an outfit that went bust, for losing their medical, for being arbitrarily fired, etc. You may be surprised...
At the end, all that matters is continuing to fight to try and slow the deteriorating conditions you are partly the cause of.
If you think you deserve it all and are ready to step on your colleagues to get it, then you should try the banking industry... or airline management.
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Retired-ville
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gents, do you really think xwindldg is really a pilot?
If you had to bet your next crew sandwich on:
A)Is he a troll?
B)Is he a management guy just trying to stir the pot and introduce discontent?
C)Is he a spoilt brat SO?
My next Maxims meal is betting that he is both A and B combined.
On the off chance he is C, no one really cares about such a view for the sensible reason expressed above by Natca, Oasis, job low, Beta light and YonosoyMarinero.
Thread drift alert:
And did I mention last day today for the vomit survey from the CX city food outlets.
Not going to change unless you make your views known about the swill on offer.
Home page, Daily news, click on survey, few minutes only, win one of 10 bottles of what could be a decent wine.
If you had to bet your next crew sandwich on:
A)Is he a troll?
B)Is he a management guy just trying to stir the pot and introduce discontent?
C)Is he a spoilt brat SO?
My next Maxims meal is betting that he is both A and B combined.
On the off chance he is C, no one really cares about such a view for the sensible reason expressed above by Natca, Oasis, job low, Beta light and YonosoyMarinero.
Thread drift alert:
And did I mention last day today for the vomit survey from the CX city food outlets.
Not going to change unless you make your views known about the swill on offer.
Home page, Daily news, click on survey, few minutes only, win one of 10 bottles of what could be a decent wine.
Not to mention those of us that occasionally "may" like to work a G day to get some extra ( sic ) dosh, or indeed to work a deal with Cc when they are desperate. I haven't worked a G day for 10 years or done any deals and won't while CC is in place.
It may be small potatoes but we are ALL working thorough this together for the benefit of ALL.
It may be small potatoes but we are ALL working thorough this together for the benefit of ALL.
Here we go again...our Gen Y and Z kids crying poor.
JFO upgrades are very quick atm and comparable with 2007 levels (less than 3 years).
The ones who are really suffering here are our 8 to 11 year HKG based SFOs awaiting a command upgrade, not the members of the spiky hair brigade who have never had a real job in their entire life.
This senior FO group is pretty much the "most" solid out there with high AOA membership levels and excellent compliance with our industrial campaign.
JFO upgrades are very quick atm and comparable with 2007 levels (less than 3 years).
The ones who are really suffering here are our 8 to 11 year HKG based SFOs awaiting a command upgrade, not the members of the spiky hair brigade who have never had a real job in their entire life.
This senior FO group is pretty much the "most" solid out there with high AOA membership levels and excellent compliance with our industrial campaign.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,539
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No, don't think it's a pilot. Even the more self-centered amongst us understand that this is a something that they better get their heads down on, and if not actively contribute at least understand and respect those that are committed to the cause. Between CC, training ban, BA, QA, EK, and the coming opening up of US airline jobs to foreign nationals (possibly by early autumn), this company's usual management strategy of denigrating its aircrew is coming to it's ignominious end. Either that, or they can continue down this path and congratulate themselves for the lines of shiny new parked aircraft. Enjoying watching this fire start to burn....
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Honky
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes there needs to be some pressure put on the company to sort out rostering but the training ban is a very bad idea. Delaying upgrades and now rumours of aircraft and training being sent to KA, at what point do we realise this was a bad plan at the start and it's shooting ourselves in both feet?
Everyone needs to stop being sheep that are blindly following each other here. Just because there is this new culture of bitching about anyone wanting to go into training doesn't change the fact that this can is being 100% carried by SOs/FOs and the cost outweighs the benefits.
Serious question, when did we vote for this training ban? I voted for CC but it seems like the training ban was added after.
Everyone needs to stop being sheep that are blindly following each other here. Just because there is this new culture of bitching about anyone wanting to go into training doesn't change the fact that this can is being 100% carried by SOs/FOs and the cost outweighs the benefits.
Serious question, when did we vote for this training ban? I voted for CC but it seems like the training ban was added after.