The Ace Up The Sleeve
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
From: HK
So Trafalger have you been called in to do a KHH or TPE flight under a KA flight number?
Did you refuse? If not, why not?
Every flight that CX crew does of ours takes duty pay out of our pocket and commands off the table.
Did you refuse? If not, why not?
Every flight that CX crew does of ours takes duty pay out of our pocket and commands off the table.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,542
Likes: 5
From: London
Ok, to be fair, I concede that my initial reaction regarding JS's was probably not helpful. I agree on balance with the majority sentiment. I can only emphasis however that BOTH groups need to pull out all the stops to resist being used against each other. My previous comments are withdrawn unconditionally.
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 651
Likes: 0
From: Hong Kong
Who's the enemy?
In 1993 it was anyone joining on B scales. In the mid 90s it was ASL. Then it was the new recruits during the recruitment ban. Then it was anyone joining on COS08. Then it was.......
I guess it is human nature to want to blame anyone but ourselves for our current predicament. It is much easier being a victim than a master of our own destiny!
We trained our own replacements during the setup of ASL - why would anyone believe KA can be made not to make a token training effort? If rumours are correct they are training two pilots in May. Compare that to the over 60 new recruits, over 20 command courses and almost 40 FO courses completed in the last three months at CX! I think the KA training is a token gesture that management will not stand idly by with the HKAOA training ban in place. I would estimate we have about 5 times as many training CNs than KA - the shortfall of training CNs, on the airbus fleet alone, is almost twice the size of the entire KA training CN contingent.
So focus on the ball, not the man. KA is NOT the problem.
My jumpseat policy remains unchanged - wife first;-), CX commuters second, KA commuters third, all others 4th. I am sure my KA peers have a similar policy - except maybe their wives ahead of mine;-)
I guess it is human nature to want to blame anyone but ourselves for our current predicament. It is much easier being a victim than a master of our own destiny!
We trained our own replacements during the setup of ASL - why would anyone believe KA can be made not to make a token training effort? If rumours are correct they are training two pilots in May. Compare that to the over 60 new recruits, over 20 command courses and almost 40 FO courses completed in the last three months at CX! I think the KA training is a token gesture that management will not stand idly by with the HKAOA training ban in place. I would estimate we have about 5 times as many training CNs than KA - the shortfall of training CNs, on the airbus fleet alone, is almost twice the size of the entire KA training CN contingent.
So focus on the ball, not the man. KA is NOT the problem.
My jumpseat policy remains unchanged - wife first;-), CX commuters second, KA commuters third, all others 4th. I am sure my KA peers have a similar policy - except maybe their wives ahead of mine;-)
Joined: Jun 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 2,238
Likes: 218
From: Eden Valley
As a professional courtesy to KA trainers who will inevitably cop a mouthful from the lunatic fringe alluded to earlier, the AOA should update its members on the KA training situation and why they are walking away from the issue. A gesture of goodwill to the company, that is fine and dandy but nobody has the right to start throwing mud at KA pilots.
The DPA should not be so politically correct in its update of its members.
The DPA should not be so politically correct in its update of its members.
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 0
Likes: 1
From: Polar Route
The reality is that KA has very little spare training capacity, and that won't change significantly anytime soon. The effect of KA training CX pilots is mostly psychological. Keep your eyes on the prize. This means very little in the big scheme of things.
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
From: HK
Not sure about that cxorcist.
At KA, upgrades and recruitments are slowing down significantly and we're being told that no expansion will take place.
From that side of the road the announcement of CX SO to FO training trial taking place.
looks like that once again CX is using KA for the benefit of The Group (means CX).
At KA, upgrades and recruitments are slowing down significantly and we're being told that no expansion will take place.
From that side of the road the announcement of CX SO to FO training trial taking place.
looks like that once again CX is using KA for the benefit of The Group (means CX).
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 513
Likes: 0
From: HK
So if these pilots are trained at KA before returning to CX what NP's will they be using KA or CX? Otherwise they may have to be "re-trained" and thus the whole exercise as the KA training will have been wasted.
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,040
Likes: 2
From: 3.5 from TD
Once you sit down and think about it rationally, instead of flying off the handle in total rage, you realize what this really is. It is another desperate and useless attempt which does nothing to fix a broken situation. It's aim is only to make you think about lifting the training ban, which is really the only good solution.
But why fix something when you might be able to fool just enough people to put pressure on the AOA about lifting the ban? I am amazed how some pilots still can't see through these tactics and immediately go off on a tangent instead of actually sitting down and thinking about it.
Seriously, take a breath people. Just chill and sit back with a nice tall drink of "this-will-be-fun-to-watch". Cue the circus music.
But why fix something when you might be able to fool just enough people to put pressure on the AOA about lifting the ban? I am amazed how some pilots still can't see through these tactics and immediately go off on a tangent instead of actually sitting down and thinking about it.
Seriously, take a breath people. Just chill and sit back with a nice tall drink of "this-will-be-fun-to-watch". Cue the circus music.
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
From: Brisbane
OK then, lets think about this. Conservatively to do the training requirements for the current year thats about 450 trainees. This doesn't take into account the deficit carried over from the last few years. At 2 trainees taking an average of two months in KA then say a week for CX famil (whats been done in the past) and line check, are we worried? The Company are well aware that a significant majority of new hires are new to the work place, this is their first full time serious employment and so are babies in the woods as far as industrial relations go and so are extremely easily intimidated. For those of you that have been around the traps and have the grey hairs to prove it, it's up to you to help open their eyes and explain the reality of the situation. Stick together, follow the AOA's program and we WILL win through.
AOA's program? May not be what you personally would have chosen but it IS a program and it IS working. Please support it as this is what will get the best result.
AOA's program? May not be what you personally would have chosen but it IS a program and it IS working. Please support it as this is what will get the best result.
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 507
Likes: 43
From: US
So what we wind up with is the new guys are inexperienced and keen, the old guys don't really care anymore and are marking time before they pull the pin, and those in the middle with other options (or those who move into the middle with other options) bolt. Evolving into a mix of youthful enthusiastic ignorance and inexperience with apathy. Those who can't yet do are motivated (for a while) and those who can do don't care. Brilliant. Not a particularly productive -- or safe -- combination. It is frustrating because it doesn't have to be that way and many very much don't want things that way. But I guess those who count do. So it is what it is.
