Cx257
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Hong Kong
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Sand Loop
I guess extension of FDP by acheiving in flight rest only applies to Normal Ops. Its irrelevant how much rest did the guys have on the flight in question, its a long haul.
I guess extension of FDP by acheiving in flight rest only applies to Normal Ops. Its irrelevant how much rest did the guys have on the flight in question, its a long haul.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: HK MTR
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7478 - Rest during LRO is irrelevant for 4 crew however we are talking about a bastardised combination of normal and long haul thinking with 3 crew. No wonder the company can do what it wants, not many seem to read the AFTLs close enough.
Next question is it legal and safe to burn out a P1 pilot on these type of flights? Not really the same as burning out an SO (no offence intended)
Next question is it legal and safe to burn out a P1 pilot on these type of flights? Not really the same as burning out an SO (no offence intended)
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Sand
Got you.
However, if you read the FTLs close enough, LRO by definition is SCHEDULED sector time >10 hrs.
So the flight itself was LRO regardless what happened after despatch.
So a combined Standard and Long range ops is not a valid argument.
Got you.
However, if you read the FTLs close enough, LRO by definition is SCHEDULED sector time >10 hrs.
So the flight itself was LRO regardless what happened after despatch.
So a combined Standard and Long range ops is not a valid argument.
Join Date: Dec 2007
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7478
What are you on about? I'm not arguing that it's not LRO however what I'm saying is that the FTLs for 3 crew are based on table A/B which comes from standard operations, therefore 3 crew LRO IS a blend of LRO (14.45hr cap) and SO (table A/B). If you ask me this NEW LRO section has been purely developed to give airlines more flexibility while making it look like they are applying common sense rules. In reality we all know it is stretching the elastic band that little bit further and we all know what happens when you stretch them too far.
What are you on about? I'm not arguing that it's not LRO however what I'm saying is that the FTLs for 3 crew are based on table A/B which comes from standard operations, therefore 3 crew LRO IS a blend of LRO (14.45hr cap) and SO (table A/B). If you ask me this NEW LRO section has been purely developed to give airlines more flexibility while making it look like they are applying common sense rules. In reality we all know it is stretching the elastic band that little bit further and we all know what happens when you stretch them too far.
Join Date: Feb 2009
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All together now
I an very late to this and I just want to say from my part of the world
ie not Hong Kong I sympathise with Cx crew esp expats. Expat crew MADE CX WHAT IT IS TODAY. It was through the efforts of expat crew "working the rules"
To the max that enabled Cs to survive thru the 50's 60's70's and 80's it was in the 80's that the wobbles started (albeit very late 80's) after the early 90's aka the strike in oz that the reality set in. It was easier to get an atpl in oz then it was harder to get a job in oz because of a bunch of very comfortable pilots in oz that had been sitting on there asses doing sweet f a that were never going to win a dispute they had been dragged into. The entire airline pilot brother hood got dragged in that bitch session from then on.. But in HKG a bunch of dedicated boys and girls just got on with it management rubbed there hands whilst a bunch of pissed off kids come and accepted the big "B" and it it did not stop. I watched on ( with an oz atpl and bucket loads of good time ) whilst one after another paid for endorsements and worked for nothing- they are amongst you now and they are the biggest belly aching pricks on this website -from oz you know whom you are. Reap what you sow. And too the skippers that rolled on your mates may you drown in your heated south of London pools. And the ozzies that ****** over your g a others - you were never our mates you spilt kids you are reaping what you have planted. Bye now do your best
ie not Hong Kong I sympathise with Cx crew esp expats. Expat crew MADE CX WHAT IT IS TODAY. It was through the efforts of expat crew "working the rules"
To the max that enabled Cs to survive thru the 50's 60's70's and 80's it was in the 80's that the wobbles started (albeit very late 80's) after the early 90's aka the strike in oz that the reality set in. It was easier to get an atpl in oz then it was harder to get a job in oz because of a bunch of very comfortable pilots in oz that had been sitting on there asses doing sweet f a that were never going to win a dispute they had been dragged into. The entire airline pilot brother hood got dragged in that bitch session from then on.. But in HKG a bunch of dedicated boys and girls just got on with it management rubbed there hands whilst a bunch of pissed off kids come and accepted the big "B" and it it did not stop. I watched on ( with an oz atpl and bucket loads of good time ) whilst one after another paid for endorsements and worked for nothing- they are amongst you now and they are the biggest belly aching pricks on this website -from oz you know whom you are. Reap what you sow. And too the skippers that rolled on your mates may you drown in your heated south of London pools. And the ozzies that ****** over your g a others - you were never our mates you spilt kids you are reaping what you have planted. Bye now do your best
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Three man crew to Europe Cn,fo,so.
Three man CN,RQFO and SO. Is this legal? Company at highest level forced this crew to operate to a European port two days ago. Surely all had to have P1 ratings?
CAD may take a view.
CAD may take a view.
Join Date: Mar 2015
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How do you force a captain to break the rules?
CX289 currently scheduled at 12:45 therefore 3 P1 pilots must be boarded.
Flight times around 11:45 so with taxi will easily bust 12:00
Plus you can't arrive early (closed) or plan to arrive early (slot time rules) with a ludicrous CI flight plan to reduce the block time.
CAD where are you?
Oh that's right, break the rules as you see fit as long as you submit paperwork because we have no clue what the rules are.
I can't wait to see CN, JF/O & S/O on a 3 crew long haul.....
CX289 currently scheduled at 12:45 therefore 3 P1 pilots must be boarded.
Flight times around 11:45 so with taxi will easily bust 12:00
Plus you can't arrive early (closed) or plan to arrive early (slot time rules) with a ludicrous CI flight plan to reduce the block time.
CAD where are you?
Oh that's right, break the rules as you see fit as long as you submit paperwork because we have no clue what the rules are.
I can't wait to see CN, JF/O & S/O on a 3 crew long haul.....
Join Date: Mar 2000
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fra flight with 3 crew the other day, if facts were as I heard them (second hand), was unacceptable bullying IMO.
Never blindly believe any higher-up when they say "trust me, I've looked at the numbers, you're legal"
It's your name on the flight plan.Independently work it out, then make a decision.
Never blindly believe any higher-up when they say "trust me, I've looked at the numbers, you're legal"
It's your name on the flight plan.Independently work it out, then make a decision.
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Apparently 4th crew member removed from cockpit just prior to pushback to cover another cluster fcuk elsewhere.
If anyone on the turd floor is to be believed, the sackings are Imminent.
Viv wanted nothing to do with it so quit and was marched out the door without being allowed a farewell message.
Captains and first offers only on the hit list. Hence the reason only second officers have been issued with iPads.
For a DFO who walked into cx claiming we had to improve our communications, the silence of the Friday Update was deafening.
Senior FOPS management are in their death throes.
While it's amusing to watch, don't stand too close.
If anyone on the turd floor is to be believed, the sackings are Imminent.
Viv wanted nothing to do with it so quit and was marched out the door without being allowed a farewell message.
Captains and first offers only on the hit list. Hence the reason only second officers have been issued with iPads.
For a DFO who walked into cx claiming we had to improve our communications, the silence of the Friday Update was deafening.
Senior FOPS management are in their death throes.
While it's amusing to watch, don't stand too close.
Join Date: May 2014
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With an 1146 FLT TM, how do you complete this flight with 3 crew, P1 rated or not? No matter how I "twist" the figures, I still can't make them legally work. 
Join Date: Jan 2012
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Huge loss - an absolute friend to crews, but at the same time CX will lose out, many many people will be sad to see her go under any circumstances.
Last edited by White None; 28th Feb 2016 at 07:09.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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I don't care to know the reason for her departure , she will be fondly remembered by everyone who came across her ,and she will be sorely missed
My only concern is that she is okay and that she will be happy in her new venture
My only concern is that she is okay and that she will be happy in her new venture
