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What it's all about

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

What it's all about

Old 27th Jul 2015, 02:36
  #1 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Mar 2008
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What it's all about

Anna, if you have any humility, perhaps you would take the time to have a look at this video, and then perhaps you would have the good graces to appreciate that at moments like these, those of us at the 'sharp end' potentially save or cost your airline up to a billion dollars in a total loss scenario. It's a bit different risk profile than sitting in an office with the chance of spilling your coffee at some point during the day...

Watch This Boeing 777 Land In A 75 MPH Windstorm

(oh, and a bit ironic that a CX 777 is sitting ready for Take off right after the landing aircraft).
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Old 27th Jul 2015, 04:20
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Join Date: Apr 2002
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She would not of even been in a simulator let alone have any appreciation what so ever .....we are replaceable remember !
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Old 27th Jul 2015, 04:21
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Join Date: Apr 2002
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She would not of even been in a simulator let alone have any appreciation what so ever .....we are replaceable remember !
Think about it , a DFO with no appreciation and a NON PILOT
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Old 27th Jul 2015, 12:47
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Underside
Posts: 65
Trafalgar.

Get off your high horse.

Your'e paid to do your job as is the KLM pilot.
You don't "save the company billions" by not crashing an aeroplane in difficult conditions.
Your logic is flawed.

Fx
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Old 27th Jul 2015, 13:11
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Age: 43
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The logic is not flawed.

If there is an incident it could cost. I honestly believe the way things are going it is only a matter of time. Reducing experience and reduced training coupled with increasing fatigue.

Trafalgar said nothing of pay. Yes we are paid to do a job and that is what we do, as professionally as we are able. I think the point is fatigue. I know if I were in that KLM I would want a rested captain at the controls, not one who managed an hour or two of disturbed sleep proceeded by trying to rest in a crappy hotel off body clock time, worrying about the inexperience in the cockpit whilst he is in the bunk. If that rest came from an extended layover or 4 pilots is beside the point, the point is we are being pushed to breaking point. Something is going to break.
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Old 27th Jul 2015, 13:27
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No Feather Boa, the point is the utter and continued contempt and disrespect shown to me, my colleagues and our profession by our management. They do not value the years of reputation built by our efforts. If you want to call that a 'high horse', suit yourself. They will love you on the 3rd floor.

Last edited by Trafalgar; 27th Jul 2015 at 21:55.
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Old 27th Jul 2015, 14:01
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Hong Kong
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They already do he obviously is 3 rd floor
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Old 27th Jul 2015, 22:58
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Oh, I do. About 3 or 4 times a month. I'm all smiles and encouraging to her during those conversations. Your enemies closer, etc. Why don't you say something productive instead of trying to wind up those of us who are making valid points? Just saying.

Last edited by Trafalgar; 27th Jul 2015 at 23:25.
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Old 27th Jul 2015, 23:16
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: with the other ex-CX pond scum (a zoologist was once head of Flight Ops)
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I hate to say it Traf, but it's what we are paid for, management couldn't care less.

While newbies are queueing up at Cathay City in their cheap interview suits and shiny shoes to do the same job for less (and will happily be trained by those who will eventually be replaced by them), it will be bonuses all round for years to come.

I'll throw you a bone and tell you that the clip has made several news sites in Australia so at least some of the general public might just give a damn.

Last edited by Captain Dart; 27th Jul 2015 at 23:57.
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Old 27th Jul 2015, 23:24
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I'm not naive enough to think that the Swire management will EVER respect and appreciate us. It's just nice to highlight the difference between the real life importance of our professionalism, skill and long term commitment to our careers and this company, unlike their in/out in 5 years/take bonus mentality. As I said, her biggest threat at work is spilling coffee on her blouse.
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Old 28th Jul 2015, 00:59
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Brexitland
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Unfortunately, we have a very weak Management culture (sic) here. In the good old days (sorry) when it was 'on message' to be respectful to the pilots who somehow got the big beast around the corner from the IGS, they couldn't have been nicer. When 'the message' changed, the whole of Management changed too - all at the same time, as one just like the flicking of a switch.
They do what they're told adhering always to the letter of their contracts and the messages they get from HQ in Central/London.
That has resulted in the current Contract Compliance phase from us and a fair number await the French cummuppence with a certain 'Je ne sais pas'.
Historically, nothing bad will happen to the Swire Group but it should and, one day, it will.
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Old 28th Jul 2015, 02:13
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: a happy place
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I agree with you Dart.
We are paid to do exactly that. Our job is to fly safely from A to B regardless whatever 'threat' is thrown in.
To show a video clip like that and ask for more respect is a little bit childish.

And yes, the managers have a bigger responsibility than we have. I agree, they don't have to make decisions in a split second but the could safe or cost the company millions of dollars. Just take a look at the fuel hedging loss or at the broken deal for those 773 because of the lack of manpower.
And I take it that you never worked for an other airline, because I saw what happens if management makes wrong decisions: you lose your job because the airline goes bankrupt.

I agree we have to work on our COS but the arguments I hear every day are just ridiculous.
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Old 28th Jul 2015, 05:31
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Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 5
I see the management trolls have finally come to battle for the Swires. Predictable. If you can't see the point that Trafalgar was making, and that it has merit, then just go and have a cosy candlelight dinner with Anna. Nice bottle of wine. It is also worth noting that if the managers stayed home for a month, the airline would still function (and we would probably be better off), but if we stayed home for a month, nada.
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