Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.


Old 16th Mar 2015, 06:57
  #21 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Brexitland
Posts: 1,132
Paris Base story is a cautionary tale for all new CX employees.
1. Cathay set up the Base with minimum research as to the correct procedures required.
2. French Government discovers that a foreign based Company is running an extensive operation on its soil illegally.
3. French Government threatens Cathay with huge fines and possible imprisonment of senior staff unless it pays back taxes of many types or closes the Base before a certain date (10 weeks hence).
4. Cathay, with no regard for the implications regarding 42 Paris based employees and their Families, shuts the Base and tells all employees to move to Hong Kong. Not 'operate from Frankfurt while we sort this out"! Move the whole lot including kids in the middle of critical times at School, wives who have wonderful jobs. Sickness etc etc - all irrelevant. Move to Hong Kong or be fired, whoever you are.
5. DFO writes that CX are being helpful and that employees should feel grateful that they are being offered positions with the same employer.
Here endeth the lesson.
You have been warned!!

Last edited by Arfur Dent; 16th Mar 2015 at 06:58. Reason: Spelling
Arfur Dent is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2015, 19:27
  #22 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: hongkong
Posts: 398
The 'research' you're talking about is freely available info for ANY company setting up onshore. Immigration, taxation and company liability regarding social security and govt. fees/taxes are all CLEARLY documented for an individual let alone a multi billion dollar conglomerate with a huge legal budget(they need one given all the litigation they insist on calling down upon themselves). There is only ONE reason the company sets up bases the way the do and that is to totally avoid the costs of doing business on shore. Have your cake and eat it too. Unfortunately the onshore govt's don't agree and several legal actions have proven time and again that employees rights prevail in the real world and that using off shore tax haven shelf corps. to abuse labour laws will not be tolerated. Paris is a perfect example...and aren't they running for cover now?
If you try to be too clever for your own have to be clever in the first place...

Arfur I totally agree with your post
BlunderBus is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2015, 19:48
  #23 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Wherever I lay my hat.
Posts: 111
Gonna be fun watching RH squirm on the stand in Court in Paris once he's no longer DFO and no longer has CX to back him up. Karma.
Kasompe is offline  
Old 17th Mar 2015, 01:34
  #24 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 38
Easy! Every email RH sent out further unified the pilots against the company!
bell1st is offline  
Old 17th Mar 2015, 20:37
  #25 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: HKG
Posts: 184
kiwi 'victory'

And now the company is throwing $$$$ at lawyers to appeal the NZ employment court ruling - spending $$$$ not to comply with the laws of a place they do business.

Why not spend less money on simply complying?

If the company doesn't win the appeal, AKL base will close. The cost of moving the AKL pilots back to HKG and their increased costs for education allowances and housing will be much more costly than complying with NZ law. But its not about the money. Its about doing it the CX way.
controlledrest is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2015, 16:45
  #26 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Earth
Posts: 71
Another lawsuit for Cathay and USAB

See this post:
Not Hiding is offline  
Old 21st Mar 2015, 21:26
  #27 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Home.
Posts: 85
So what you all are saying is don't take a base..hmmm...I suspect those saying don't take a base are so junior that a base is a dream

I am sure if a base were available to those nay sayers they would be packing their bags.
RusCo is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2015, 01:19
  #28 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,544
Cut and Paste and save the above comment. I predict in 3-5 years Curtain will have been proven largely correct. If they can strangle housing, then there is very little need for basings. As for USA onshoring, I predict another epic debacle. Already starting with the A day fiasco. A US based colleague told me he is now forced to spend 50 - 60 days more a year in a hotel at his own expense. Almost TWO months more away from home at his expense each year. Yes, just handed in his notice and leaving for a US major. Another own goal. This lot couldn't find their way out of a wet paper bag with a pair of scissors. Words fail me. But let's keep 'working hard' like the CEO says, to ensure the management bonuses stay high, and maybe next year the rest of the staff might get $2500K profit sharing. I'm motivated, how about you?
Trafalgar is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2015, 02:33
  #29 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 1,120
I heard they will be offering Australian bases again this year...but no bases for Captains, due to long service leave requirements!

Another case of discrimination...maybe another court case!
Frogman1484 is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2015, 02:46
  #30 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 94
How does rank affect Long Service Leave?
Just Do It is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2015, 02:47
  #31 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Up there
Posts: 169
Any suggestions on how to get demoted rather than fired
CCA is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2015, 02:55
  #32 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In front of the PC
Posts: 298
If they can strangle housing, then there is very little need for basings.
Don't get this!
If they strangle housing, no one except for a few who already own their place, will stay surely??

No housing = mass exodus, so can't see them strangling both
asianeagle is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2015, 03:41
  #33 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 1,120
The longer you have worked with Cx the longer the long service leave will be.
Frogman1484 is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2015, 03:55
  #34 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 94
OK, thought that might be the case, seems they are just kicking the can further down the road. How do you prove a discrimination case in an Australian court with HKG based personnel applying for positions based on "CX manning level requirements"? Just spit balling...
Just Do It is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2015, 04:54
  #35 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Up there
Posts: 169
No housing = mass exodus
Really, where to, all those other airlines that are hiring?

Sorry some will leave out of spite, the rest will all stay.
CCA is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2015, 06:06
  #36 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In front of the PC
Posts: 298
Well, if I have to now pay my rent here, I will lose money.
Might as well lose money in my home country and start another career etc etc.

Staying in HKG with established families and no housing is a non starter for those that are already here.

Sure we could all go live in a shoe box Tuen Mun but wifey ain't gonna like that
asianeagle is offline  

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