Bitterly Divided
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
From: Down South
Bitterly Divided
I guess we're not the only ones who are bitterly divided: 8,180 to 8,196
Flight attendants reject new American Airlines contract by 16 votes | Dallas Morning News
Flight attendants reject new American Airlines contract by 16 votes | Dallas Morning News
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 199
Likes: 0
From: somewhere above the sea
we're in furious agreement
NOT bitterly divided.
51% voted no because, to paraphrase another ppruner "go f#ck yourself" wasn't an option on the ballot
49% voted yes, not because they thought it was a good deal, but because they're so disengaged they couldn't be bothered saying no. I don't think any of them thought it was a great deal.
And then we had a vote in the 90's for CC with a participation rate also in the 90's. That's almost unheard of in a non compulsory vote.
We're not divided, and every time another letter comes from the desk of the out of touch DFO our solidarity grows.
51% voted no because, to paraphrase another ppruner "go f#ck yourself" wasn't an option on the ballot
49% voted yes, not because they thought it was a good deal, but because they're so disengaged they couldn't be bothered saying no. I don't think any of them thought it was a great deal.
And then we had a vote in the 90's for CC with a participation rate also in the 90's. That's almost unheard of in a non compulsory vote.
We're not divided, and every time another letter comes from the desk of the out of touch DFO our solidarity grows.
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
From: Home
Was wondering what that red lanyard was for.
Sadly 49% voted for 4/3/3 and most have voted for CC because they didn't have an option. Having not got the possibly only pay offer we're ever going to get voting no to CC didnt make sense to a large majority of them. So yes, there is unity, but only so much. Most are happy wearing the plain blue AOA lanyard, if this is an AOA idea, I'm guessing plenty of the members arent going with it.
Hardliners (who start forgetting right about now that they're a minority) will wear it, and rant and rave at those who don't. But just like in 2000, it's actions like this by the AOA that will lead to the moderates resigning.
And the hardliners bitching that they're better off with committed members only.
And the AOA back to 30% of the pilot group.
And another 10 years of recruiting to get the numbers back up.
Deja vu.
Sadly 49% voted for 4/3/3 and most have voted for CC because they didn't have an option. Having not got the possibly only pay offer we're ever going to get voting no to CC didnt make sense to a large majority of them. So yes, there is unity, but only so much. Most are happy wearing the plain blue AOA lanyard, if this is an AOA idea, I'm guessing plenty of the members arent going with it.
Hardliners (who start forgetting right about now that they're a minority) will wear it, and rant and rave at those who don't. But just like in 2000, it's actions like this by the AOA that will lead to the moderates resigning.
And the hardliners bitching that they're better off with committed members only.
And the AOA back to 30% of the pilot group.
And another 10 years of recruiting to get the numbers back up.
Deja vu.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,609
Likes: 0
From: Asia
Anotherday
I’ve been here long enough to remember those days well. You clearly have deliberately forgotten them because CC isn’t MSS so stop clouding the issue, especially for those who are more recent joiners. No one is asking anyone to stick their heads up to be chopped off like we foolishly did in 2000/1 with MSS which ultimately resulted in the 49’ers. You don’t need to be a Hardliner to abide by the terms of your contract.
I’ve been here long enough to remember those days well. You clearly have deliberately forgotten them because CC isn’t MSS so stop clouding the issue, especially for those who are more recent joiners. No one is asking anyone to stick their heads up to be chopped off like we foolishly did in 2000/1 with MSS which ultimately resulted in the 49’ers. You don’t need to be a Hardliner to abide by the terms of your contract.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
From: Hong K ong
Another day - go to bed and wake up another day when this is all over.
Another day - Are you one of the 8 % or the 7%?
I'm just trying to understand the thoughts of those?
You seem to be a pesimist, its hard enough having our professional pride getting stood on by our managers. Now you..
More than the money we all need our pride back.
Wimpering in the corner is not going to help. So pls put on the Red band and show some confidence.
Agree that there should not be those whom put their heads way up there. Small pro steps together (93+%) are more effective.
I'm just trying to understand the thoughts of those?
You seem to be a pesimist, its hard enough having our professional pride getting stood on by our managers. Now you..
More than the money we all need our pride back.
Wimpering in the corner is not going to help. So pls put on the Red band and show some confidence.
Agree that there should not be those whom put their heads way up there. Small pro steps together (93+%) are more effective.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
From: Down South
What did American Airlines pilots do to get this?
American pilots are going to be voting on a new contract that will give them the highest pay among the legacy carriers.
American pilots union to consider contract offer from company | American Airlines | Amer...
Did they wear red lanyards? What did they do?
American pilots union to consider contract offer from company | American Airlines | Amer...
An interesting excerpt from the article: (Kirby is president of American Airlines)
The proposal does not include the company’s initial request to add five seats to the regional jet work scope section of the contract to allow regional carriers, like Envoy Air and Piedmont Airlines, to fly jets with 81 seats instead of the current limit of 76.
Kirby said adding those five seats would translate into tens of millions of dollars in new revenue annually for the airline.
“Even though we believe the scope request is in the best interest of all involved, we believe that establishing trust with our employees is even more important,” Kirby wrote. “Today’s proposal omits a request to add five seats to the 76-seat jets as a sign of good faith to demonstrate the trust we want to build.”
Read more here: American pilots union to consider contract offer from company | American Airlines | Amer...
American pilots union to consider contract offer from company | American Airlines | Amer...
Did they wear red lanyards? What did they do?
American pilots union to consider contract offer from company | American Airlines | Amer...
An interesting excerpt from the article: (Kirby is president of American Airlines)
The proposal does not include the company’s initial request to add five seats to the regional jet work scope section of the contract to allow regional carriers, like Envoy Air and Piedmont Airlines, to fly jets with 81 seats instead of the current limit of 76.
Kirby said adding those five seats would translate into tens of millions of dollars in new revenue annually for the airline.
“Even though we believe the scope request is in the best interest of all involved, we believe that establishing trust with our employees is even more important,” Kirby wrote. “Today’s proposal omits a request to add five seats to the 76-seat jets as a sign of good faith to demonstrate the trust we want to build.”
Read more here: American pilots union to consider contract offer from company | American Airlines | Amer...
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
From: 1/2 Here & There
The red Lanyard is all about showing support for the AOA .
Why would a member not want to show support ?
It appears to me there is a group of members out there
who want the money , but are unwilling to do nothing about it !
Wearing your Lanyard is the Very LEAST we can do
Why would a member not want to show support ?
It appears to me there is a group of members out there
who want the money , but are unwilling to do nothing about it !
Wearing your Lanyard is the Very LEAST we can do
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 507
Likes: 43
From: US
Actually, the AA FA DID actually have a decent TA with regard to pay (and it didn't have to do with rostering). But some other last minute changes (which may actually have been gains) were viewed suspiciously and it voted down.
In any case, the premise of the thread is wholly wrong--at this point it should have been
BITTERLY UNITED
Although not all of us are bitter and if anything are much MORE resolute than ever before.
In any case, the premise of the thread is wholly wrong--at this point it should have been
BITTERLY UNITED
Although not all of us are bitter and if anything are much MORE resolute than ever before.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 743
Likes: 0
From: Hong Kong
Red Lanyard
I just received an email from the AOA saying that the red lanyard is not to be worn yet. Stay with the blue.
The red lanyard is to be donned upon their instruction (presumably start of CC)
The red lanyard is to be donned upon their instruction (presumably start of CC)
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
From: Bouvet Island
Did we not just show our support for CC in the vote? Did we not just show our support and resolve by voting down, miraculously, the pay offer? Did we not show that support over a year and a half ago when we solidly voted to support CC? Why on earth would changing from a blue lanyard to a red lanyard, really scare the company now? I mean, if they count red lanyards like they count salmon swimming up stream into Cathay City, and they count mostly blue lanyards, people haven't switched to the red ones, has our resolve lessened? Will they then laugh at us and say we really don't mean it?
I think red lanyards are juvenile.
I think we'll get a far, far better pay offer having ALREADY started contract compliance, than we'll get threatening it.
I think red lanyards are juvenile.
I think we'll get a far, far better pay offer having ALREADY started contract compliance, than we'll get threatening it.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 236
Likes: 146
From: Uk
CC is a wholly appropriate measured response to the situation we now find ourselves in. It can be achieved quietly, carefully and professionally. Wearing a red lanyard is like a child saying 'Ya Boo Sucks to you'. It's not professional and we don't need this to show that we're united..the vote did that, It'll just make the company dig their heels in more.....they'll probably even ban it for not being part of the uniform, and that'll make us look bloody stupid.
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 241
Likes: 0
From: Nippi
It's just a lanyard. Wear it or don't. I put mine on because it's far nicer looking then the blue one. Which I think is gay. Frankly, until the email was sent from the AOA I didn't give it much more thought.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 236
Likes: 146
From: Uk
Yeah, best not hail that whole episode as a success story though eh. This is about being professional and using the perfectly reasonable strategy of working our contract to achieve the results we all deserve. It's not a fight, there's no place for that in our working environment and it certainly doesn't need to be shouted from the rooftops
