CX Ban - "Jeopardy"
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
From: Location, Location
CX Ban - "Jeopardy"
Firstly I am not currently involved with the Interview process nor have I been offered employment with Cathay.
I have however written to the HKAOA in response to the Ad on PPRune regarding the ban. Here is a response from Mr Clive Handley HKAOA to the inquiry.
"Dear Sir/Madam,
I am in receipt of your request to be notified by us when the
Recruitment Ban has been lifted. However, you can still go through the interview process without jeopardy as long as you don't actually start with the Company before the ban is lifted. This applies to all pilot ranks.
Regards,
Clive Handley"
Mr Handley states that there is no JEOPARDY in going through the interview process as long as you turn down the job at the end.
My question to you all is;
Who believes that going though the interview process and turning down Cathay's offer of a job at the end would not place your future, "Post Ban" with Cathay in JEOPARDY.
"Post Ban" how and will the HKAOA support those pilots who have turned down jobs in support of current Cathay pilots and the "49'ers"?
I have however written to the HKAOA in response to the Ad on PPRune regarding the ban. Here is a response from Mr Clive Handley HKAOA to the inquiry.
"Dear Sir/Madam,
I am in receipt of your request to be notified by us when the
Recruitment Ban has been lifted. However, you can still go through the interview process without jeopardy as long as you don't actually start with the Company before the ban is lifted. This applies to all pilot ranks.
Regards,
Clive Handley"
Mr Handley states that there is no JEOPARDY in going through the interview process as long as you turn down the job at the end.
My question to you all is;
Who believes that going though the interview process and turning down Cathay's offer of a job at the end would not place your future, "Post Ban" with Cathay in JEOPARDY.
"Post Ban" how and will the HKAOA support those pilots who have turned down jobs in support of current Cathay pilots and the "49'ers"?
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
no jeopardy
Easy one - don't decline the interview/job for industrial reasons - tell them you're grandmother's sick, you're wife just entered a six month contract, you promised your current employer a year and you feel compelled to honour that agreement, etc, etc
Not too hard to come up with a reason they won't prejudice you for.
Not too hard to come up with a reason they won't prejudice you for.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
From: N. America
Yes, and if you believe that, just tear up that winning lottery ticket in your pocket, I'm sure your number will come up again...give me a break.
Say what you want about joining/not joining during this controversial ban. But it's an insult to people's intelligence to suggest that 3, 6, 8 months from now CX will ring you back and ask again - because you had some great excuse this time around. A job offer in hand is worth...any amount of lame advice on an internet forum!
Hopefully you have the reasoning skills to recognize this is not an argument over the ban but a disagreement over the more general point of deferring a job offer...
Say what you want about joining/not joining during this controversial ban. But it's an insult to people's intelligence to suggest that 3, 6, 8 months from now CX will ring you back and ask again - because you had some great excuse this time around. A job offer in hand is worth...any amount of lame advice on an internet forum!
Hopefully you have the reasoning skills to recognize this is not an argument over the ban but a disagreement over the more general point of deferring a job offer...
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
From: Hong Kong
Asking someone to blatantly lie to his new prospective employer - hey great start for your working life with what is the best airline in the world. I don't think so, the suggester, Doctor J, I am sure did it only in a moment of weakness and didn't really mean it.
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 288
Likes: 0
From: Sydney
Couple of mates just defered their start dates,they got the "We understand" sentiments from CX management.Later they discovered from whispers that management had considered them to have knocked back the job!
My mates respect pilots fighting for their rights,my mates have respected the ban but they have difficulty viewing CX pilots in honourable light.They can`t understand why CX pilots expect others to do the fighting for them-gave them a little lesson in British history.
My mates respect pilots fighting for their rights,my mates have respected the ban but they have difficulty viewing CX pilots in honourable light.They can`t understand why CX pilots expect others to do the fighting for them-gave them a little lesson in British history.
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 476
Likes: 2
Well done Dr. J, having argued for months that the AOA holds the "moral" ground you then propose that new recruits lie to support your cause.
If you are not already on the AOA's negotiating committee then might I suggest that you apply for the said position ... you are such a tremendous asset to the cause.
If you are not already on the AOA's negotiating committee then might I suggest that you apply for the said position ... you are such a tremendous asset to the cause.
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 346
Likes: 0
From: India
Doctor J:
So why doesn't the HKAOA take some of your medicine and ask currently employed pilots to be creative about some reasons for not turning up to work (all in the honourable cause to avoid using the word "strike", of course), such as "my grandmother's sick" etc.
So why doesn't the HKAOA take some of your medicine and ask currently employed pilots to be creative about some reasons for not turning up to work (all in the honourable cause to avoid using the word "strike", of course), such as "my grandmother's sick" etc.
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: Australia
HELLO out there!
Getting a job with Cathay is not, repeat, not winning the lottery. If it was, then why have 2 guys (F/Os) just resigned to go to Virgin Blue and another 2 to go to WestJet? And taken big pay cuts too.
If you can find a job with any other airline that is not in dispute with its Union, treats its employees as human beings, and sticks to your contract then take it. The ban here will only be lifted when the above conditions reapply in CX.
So, until normal service is resumed, please do yourselves a favour, and stay away.
Getting a job with Cathay is not, repeat, not winning the lottery. If it was, then why have 2 guys (F/Os) just resigned to go to Virgin Blue and another 2 to go to WestJet? And taken big pay cuts too.
If you can find a job with any other airline that is not in dispute with its Union, treats its employees as human beings, and sticks to your contract then take it. The ban here will only be lifted when the above conditions reapply in CX.
So, until normal service is resumed, please do yourselves a favour, and stay away.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
From: Hong Kong
There is no airline/business in existence that exists purely to altruistically support its employees. Or if there is, it will not be around for long. There have been wrongs, some quite grievous, instigated by both parties in this 'dispute' at CX. And whether you like it or not, the only real issue is the 49ers. Of course many folk would say there is no dispute and that management has already laid down the winning hand. More about collateral damage for the AOA methinks.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
From: N. America
Goonwindi,
My comparison to a lottery was only in reference to the ODDS of your getting another call after you are mysteriously unable to accept the first one due to your "sick grandmother", etc...
I have numerous colleagues at CX who have made it quite clear that it isn't exactly a dream come true at the moment. But neither is it the living hell that some of the rhetoric here would have you believe. Never forget that there are countless aviation jobs out there that would make CX in all its present dysfunction seem like a paradise. Which is why the ban can never succeed.
My comparison to a lottery was only in reference to the ODDS of your getting another call after you are mysteriously unable to accept the first one due to your "sick grandmother", etc...
I have numerous colleagues at CX who have made it quite clear that it isn't exactly a dream come true at the moment. But neither is it the living hell that some of the rhetoric here would have you believe. Never forget that there are countless aviation jobs out there that would make CX in all its present dysfunction seem like a paradise. Which is why the ban can never succeed.
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 288
Likes: 0
From: Sydney
A couple of exAnsett senior pilots were told by recruitment there may be direct entry F/O positions into CX before years end.I thought they were talking about the freighter,they reckon it was mainline.They have unofficially met with recruitment management already.
I don`t believe them,they insist it true.
Would management do this to divide S/Os from the rest of the group?Technically it is their upgrades being taken.
Dividing and conquering,an age old tactic.Segregating S/Os a ruthless ploy but,most I have spoken to disagree with the ban.Maybe a means of crumbling a union from the bottom up.
Good luck,shame you couldn`t do more yourselves though.
I don`t believe them,they insist it true.
Would management do this to divide S/Os from the rest of the group?Technically it is their upgrades being taken.
Dividing and conquering,an age old tactic.Segregating S/Os a ruthless ploy but,most I have spoken to disagree with the ban.Maybe a means of crumbling a union from the bottom up.
Good luck,shame you couldn`t do more yourselves though.
Last edited by MT Edelstone56; 30th May 2002 at 02:02.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
From: Tamarama beach
"Getting a job with Cathay is not, repeat, not winning the lottery. If it was, then why have 2 guys (F/Os) just resigned to go to Virgin Blue and another 2 to go to WestJet? And taken big pay cuts too. "
Well, how about because they want to go back home. I mean, Oz beats the crap out of Hong Kong.
Does anyone have an idea of what happened to those 50 retrenched guys ?
Well, how about because they want to go back home. I mean, Oz beats the crap out of Hong Kong.
Does anyone have an idea of what happened to those 50 retrenched guys ?
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 158
Likes: 0
From: To: From: To: From:
walla...
Not "retrenched". Read this:
This is not retrenchment.
As to how they're doing, I can't speak for them, but it's not fun, I'm sure. A couple of lads have found alternate employment, but it's rumoured that Cathay has put out a blacklist of the 49 in an attempt to prevent them being rehired anywhere. Sadly, one of the fellows fell to his death a few months back.
Not "retrenched". Read this:
the 49 fired included 5 out of 20 union committee members and 4 out of 7 union negotiators. It also included the ex President, ex Vice President and ex Treasurer. The overall spread of pilots ranged from the most junior (2 years in the Company) to the most senior pilots (approaching retirement and with 23 years’ service). Although 13% of company pilots were non-union, 48 of the 49 fired on July 09 were union members. The one non-union pilot had the same first and last name as a union pilot who was not dismissed and it is widely believed to have been a case of mistaken identity.
As to how they're doing, I can't speak for them, but it's not fun, I'm sure. A couple of lads have found alternate employment, but it's rumoured that Cathay has put out a blacklist of the 49 in an attempt to prevent them being rehired anywhere. Sadly, one of the fellows fell to his death a few months back.
Last edited by Kubota; 2nd June 2002 at 15:38.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,025
Likes: 1
From: The Global village
"it's rumoured that Cathay has put out a blacklist of the 49 in an attempt to prevent them being rehired anywhere."
If that IS true, it's interesting to note that these guys had CX management worried.
Perhaps they should take up consultancy positions for other pilot groups being threatened.
If that IS true, it's interesting to note that these guys had CX management worried.
Perhaps they should take up consultancy positions for other pilot groups being threatened.
Last edited by Kaptin M; 2nd June 2002 at 21:32.
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
From: Alloway,Ayrshire,Scotland
Just to let you guys know that there is not a ban on CPA employees of any side of the industrial divide applying to the company I work for.Without going into too much detail this issue has been discussed and I am pleased to say that merely being a 49-er (sadly,48) does not preclude applying,nor indeed of being succesful in obtaining a job. The only proviso is passing the interview process,certainly not a formality in itself, and leaving all the Cathay baggage behind. And I mean that sympathetically.B/rgds.