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San Fran flight

Old 18th Feb 2014, 12:11
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San Fran flight

FAU asking all to pray for injured crew on an SFO flight..... Any idea what happened??
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Old 18th Feb 2014, 13:49
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Eleven injured as Hong Kong-bound Cathay flight hit by turbulence over Japan | South China Morning Post
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Old 18th Feb 2014, 15:43
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Uh oh, I see another God debate coming up....
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Old 18th Feb 2014, 17:19
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....just a thought: there are no atheists in foxholes....
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Old 18th Feb 2014, 17:25
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Sorry, I have to ask. If the ambulances were necessary, why did the crew fly another 4 hours to Hong Kong? I'm hoping that was just a precaution by the HKIA authorities. Otherwise, there will most definitely be an investigation.
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Old 19th Feb 2014, 00:42
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....just a thought: there are no atheists in foxholes....
Wrong.

Military Association of Atheists & Freethinkers | Atheists in Foxholes, in Cockpits, and on Ships - Military Association of Atheists & Freethinkers
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Old 19th Feb 2014, 01:45
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"He said there was no broadcast or signal requiring passengers to fasten their seatbelts before the turbulence, which started very suddenly."

This is what got my attention. We have a policy of when the seat belt sign is on our china dolls in high heels walk up and down the cabin telling big rugby players to immediately put their seatbelt on for safety. If it is unsafe for one it is unsafe for all, every one should be seated.

The quote from the pax also highlights the blame game or litigation environment we now find ourselves in.

It is no longer about getting the job done but rather about Cover Your Ass.
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Old 19th Feb 2014, 04:57
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Cue the [insert nationality here] complaining about Americans asking for ride reports or passing one on to ATC...

I am amazed how many times I've reported / inquired about ride conditions only to be scoffed at by some dimwit sitting next to me going on about "RT standard".

Some people never learn.
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Old 19th Feb 2014, 07:01
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You mean, when you are over a meteorological waypoint, you don't give ATC a ride report when not CPDLC established? Isn't that against the rules, or are these waypoints no longer depicted on navtech charts properly. Oh, if we had jepps, the crew would have known where the turbulence was.... Killer app. We saved enough from navtech to pay the hospital bills and for the investigation into this one incident. How much did our EFB cost?
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Old 19th Feb 2014, 12:23
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I am amazed how many times I've reported / inquired about ride conditions only to be scoffed at by some dimwit sitting next to me going on about "RT standard".

You're obviously missing the point.

You're scoffed at by the dimwit because you're asking for a "ride report" from a Chinese, Japanese, Indian, European or [insert any nationality except American) controller.
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Old 19th Feb 2014, 14:49
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What I want to see come out of this, especially from the all-powerful FAU, is the common sense concept that when the fasten-seatbelt signs come on (due to turbulence), the Cabin Crew should be seated too!

Like someone said, you have our featherweight China dolls in Heels telling guys twice their size and three times their weight to fasten seatbelts.

Now let me make this clear and how serious this matter is. Next time you put the fasten seatbelt signs, and you do get a surprise like this flight had, what stops our cabin crew suing YOU, the guy with 4 Stripes on his shoulder, for not announcing "CC please stop duties and be seated etc etc"?

The FAU might not be pushing for their CC to be seated when the fasten belts sign come on, but it is your ass, guys, when they hit their heads on the ceiling making sure the passengers have their seat belt on.
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Old 19th Feb 2014, 16:44
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Like someone said, you have our featherweight China dolls in Heels telling guys twice their size and three times their weight to fasten seatbelts.
Remember, it's the China dolls job to keep the twice-their-size rugby players safe, not the other way around. It's a simple concept - the CC are employees and are expected to accept a greater level of risk than the customers. Besides, who would you rather have land on you when the turbulence hits - a 100 lb China doll, or a 250 lb Rugby player

I've never understood the mentality of passengers who, the moment the seatbelt sign goes out, unbuckle and stay that way the remainder of the fight. As long as you stay seated, a loosely buckled belt is hardly noticeable and it's cheap insurance (plus you don't have to worry about the China doll harassing you to fasten it when the belt comes on).

The lawsuit risk in the USA is insane - as a result I've noticed US based airlines only turn off the seatbelt sign when it's dead calm (which can be really maddening when you need to use the head). It's basically gotten to the point that, unless it's really bumpy, passengers basically ignore the seatbelt sign to use the bathroom, and the CC turn a blind eye. But it gives the airline cover - if someone gets hurt they simply say the passenger ignored the seatbelt sign - take your fancy lawyer and pound sand
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Old 19th Feb 2014, 20:30
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Any QF drivers reading this, please correct me if this is not correct, but my understanding of their policy is - SB Sign on - everyone is strapped in (CC included), SB sign off - you are free to move about.

At the end of the day, this covers everyone!

b.
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Old 20th Feb 2014, 02:19
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boocs - True whenever the seat belt sign comes on from the flight deck all paxs and crew must be seated and the flight crew make an announcement to that effect. If the Captain is putting the sign on an making an announcement its for a reason and that is the flight crew want everyone crew included seated and secure.
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Old 20th Feb 2014, 04:27
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In the interest of safety, stop flight planning us straight through areas of forecast or known moderate to severe turbulence.
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Old 20th Feb 2014, 11:04
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Maybe i lost this ....but wasnt the aircrew who flew into turbulence into japan arrested and faced all sorts of police charges in the dim past with air nippon? If thats the case maybe it would be, unless life threatening, bypass that can of worms that Japan is?
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Old 20th Feb 2014, 12:25
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I believe if you land in Japan with people injured, it automatically becomes a police matter. Japanese take CAT seriously - as they should, living under the strongest jet stream on the planet.

I hope those injured on this flight recover fully and quickly.
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Old 20th Feb 2014, 14:46
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True, avoid Japan, they will lock you up and then the investigation begins. Some guys just have the signs on in Jap airspace regardless of the ride. I hope it hasn't got the point where crew would consider not diverting to a Japanese port to avoid getting locked up at the expense of pressing on with injured pax/fa's. I would imagine medlink guidance be the only real option here. Go where they suggest for liability coverage.

As for not planning us through med to severe turbulence, I guess that would exclude flying in China for at least 6 months of the year, you might be on to something there!!!
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Old 21st Feb 2014, 05:25
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Aircraft will always be flight planned in the Jet stream due to fuel burn.
Japan will always always be strict with everything, including potential negligent injury.
And, "quad" is spot-on: "Ride-Reports" from anywhere outside the USA is non-standard, and usually gets a "?" Americans can't seem to understand that......along with "we're gonna need a little bit south cause of a build up"
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Old 24th Feb 2014, 15:54
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Ughh

Originally Posted by 4 driver View Post
Americans can't seem to understand that......along with "we're gonna need a little bit south cause of a build up"
Are you ever going to give up the R/T crap and stick to the subject?
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