Asiana details coming to light
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It matters, but it is hard to convince the beancounters of it, because it is hard to measure.
When they put us in the sim and after a while we all reach the same standard because we all read the vol8, who can tell what the background was?
When they put us in the sim and after a while we all reach the same standard because we all read the vol8, who can tell what the background was?
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If they were all passing with flying colors, the company would not need to have changed the ride. Anecdotally, the number of sectors to go from SO to JFO has gone way up in the last couple years. I wonder why that is???
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I have flown the 320 in Asia with their 250 hr. F/O's,which is how most of them start.They are button pushers,they have no practical experience.Visual approach ???,turn it all off and see the look on their face,They are great in the sim and with the automation,but no airmanship whatsoever.Most actually told me they got into flying for the money and prestige.
When they upgrade to Capt your getting the same thing, just a more experienced button pusher.
When they upgrade to Capt your getting the same thing, just a more experienced button pusher.
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cxorcist,
There were always progress reviews. The PK (Check-to-line check) has been replaced by a normal line check. Whether it means it has become easier as a result who knows.
There were always progress reviews. The PK (Check-to-line check) has been replaced by a normal line check. Whether it means it has become easier as a result who knows.
They are getting rid of the QL so they don't have to back pay the JFO when they pass the now so call line check..the QL is a pure financial related check compare to a normal line check
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Back on topic.
Did anyone read the cvr report?
Why was the trainee recorded on cam-2? Was he in the right seat?
About the auto thrust in the 777, it makes no sense to me why they don't have the stall protection feature available in all modes.
Seems like a major oversight to me.
I'm sure someone is now going to say that they should've watched the speed, which is true, but that's kind of like saying that you can switch gpws off at any old time and just use a map instead.
Did anyone read the cvr report?
Why was the trainee recorded on cam-2? Was he in the right seat?
About the auto thrust in the 777, it makes no sense to me why they don't have the stall protection feature available in all modes.
Seems like a major oversight to me.
I'm sure someone is now going to say that they should've watched the speed, which is true, but that's kind of like saying that you can switch gpws off at any old time and just use a map instead.
Oasis
The pilot disconnected the autothrottle because he'd miss-programed it and didn't like what it was doing (it was trying to climb to 3000 ft., which is what he'd programed it to do, then selected "Flight Level Change"). If he'd set it to control speed (which is SOP), it would have functioned fine.
Do you really want an A/T that can unilaterally decide to apply the power necessary to climb to 3,000 ft AGL when you're trying to land and already manually disconnected it?
The real mystery to me is, why did he intentionally disconnect the A/T, then expect it to still hold speed?
The pilot disconnected the autothrottle because he'd miss-programed it and didn't like what it was doing (it was trying to climb to 3000 ft., which is what he'd programed it to do, then selected "Flight Level Change"). If he'd set it to control speed (which is SOP), it would have functioned fine.
Do you really want an A/T that can unilaterally decide to apply the power necessary to climb to 3,000 ft AGL when you're trying to land and already manually disconnected it?
The real mystery to me is, why did he intentionally disconnect the A/T, then expect it to still hold speed?
That's how I understand it too, Oval
The flying pilot was in a level change mode, but ignored the FD
That's speed on elevator, not thrust
The flying pilot chose to ignore the FD
....... If they both switched the things off, and used FPV, the speed mode would have returned to Thrust and all would have been fine
There is nothing wrong with the Boeing philosophy
The flying pilot was in a level change mode, but ignored the FD
That's speed on elevator, not thrust
The flying pilot chose to ignore the FD
....... If they both switched the things off, and used FPV, the speed mode would have returned to Thrust and all would have been fine
There is nothing wrong with the Boeing philosophy
Last edited by Buttscratcher; 18th Dec 2013 at 01:02. Reason: Boeing got it right, the crew got it wrong
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17 seconds after he disconnected the A/P because it added thrust and pitched up to climb to 3,000, the trainee in the left seat turned off his F/D (or the trainer in the right seat turned it off for him)
Yes, it was speed on elevator from the time he pushed FLCH and it started to climb until the time he hit the seawall.
What do you mean, "switched the things over to FPV?" I am not aware of that as an A/T or pitch mode.
Yes, it was speed on elevator from the time he pushed FLCH and it started to climb until the time he hit the seawall.
What do you mean, "switched the things over to FPV?" I am not aware of that as an A/T or pitch mode.
Just as long as you take both FDs off, speed mode will be recovered on Thrust
.... Provided of course the ATs are still connected - which I understand they were
Never ignore the FDs. If you are not using them, turn em off
.... Provided of course the ATs are still connected - which I understand they were
Never ignore the FDs. If you are not using them, turn em off
Sorry, poor choice of words - the A/T was put into "hold" mode with the throttles at idle, not disconnected.
Point being, do you really want an autothrottle intentionally set to 'hold' to start adding thrust unexpectedly while you're landing? Say, during flare?
That has bad ending written all over it.
Now if you want to suggest the pilot flying didn't know what he was doing when he put the A/T in "hold" during final, I won't argue.
I would however argue that if the pilot doesn't know what he's doing, he's not a pilot.
Point being, do you really want an autothrottle intentionally set to 'hold' to start adding thrust unexpectedly while you're landing? Say, during flare?
That has bad ending written all over it.
Now if you want to suggest the pilot flying didn't know what he was doing when he put the A/T in "hold" during final, I won't argue.
I would however argue that if the pilot doesn't know what he's doing, he's not a pilot.
Hold mode' is a FLCH function, amongst others... Like TO above 80 kts
Anyways, to clarify, Oval, switching the FDs off reverts to basic modes like Speed on Thrust. I'll dig you up a reference
Anyways, to clarify, Oval, switching the FDs off reverts to basic modes like Speed on Thrust. I'll dig you up a reference
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If you read the cvr transcript, he says 'flight director off' at some point, if one fd was still left on, you wouldn't go to speed mode, and the thrust would stay idle.
That's why we turn em both off all the time.
You get stall protection up to landing even in auto land on the 777, so why not in hold mode?
Still makes no sense, safety features are there for a reason, whats the point of it being off in some modes?
That's why we turn em both off all the time.
You get stall protection up to landing even in auto land on the 777, so why not in hold mode?
Still makes no sense, safety features are there for a reason, whats the point of it being off in some modes?
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"Never ignore the FDs..."
Does that mean you have to fly them precisely if they are on?
I will, on occasions, use more/less pitch or less bank than the FDs call for if I want. This could be for any number of reasons. It does not mean I am ignoring the commands, but I am choosing to fly differently for a reason.
Does that mean you have to fly them precisely if they are on?
I will, on occasions, use more/less pitch or less bank than the FDs call for if I want. This could be for any number of reasons. It does not mean I am ignoring the commands, but I am choosing to fly differently for a reason.