ADIZ Violations. Day 2
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ADIZ Violations. Day 2
It seems that foreign powers are treating Chinese sovereignty with impunity. What is the best way of enforcing the terms of the Order ??
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@sodapop
Oh, there's Edwards Air Force Base, Seal Beach, Point Mugu MCAS, 29 Palms down the road... But you're probably right. Why float a naval ship off the coast when every single base and installation is thoroughly penetrated by Chinese agents anyhow.
The main point of doing it though, is just doing it.
@Silberfuchs
Ah yes, those bloody ******* hypocritical Americans. Can't wait till America at long last crumbles to irrelevance and the glorious Peoples' Liberation Army rules the globe.
LMAO.
Oh, there's Edwards Air Force Base, Seal Beach, Point Mugu MCAS, 29 Palms down the road... But you're probably right. Why float a naval ship off the coast when every single base and installation is thoroughly penetrated by Chinese agents anyhow.
The main point of doing it though, is just doing it.
@Silberfuchs
Ah yes, those bloody ******* hypocritical Americans. Can't wait till America at long last crumbles to irrelevance and the glorious Peoples' Liberation Army rules the globe.
LMAO.
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Missed Opportunity;
During the early 1970s Cathay's daily direct flight from Singapore to Hongkong would often cross close under a formation of three B-52s flying westward from Guam and on their way to bomb the jungles and villages of both South and North Vietnam. They were easy to see as their contrails gave them away and they were very predictable, always same spot and same time. The North Vietnamese had some MIG-17s and just one of these with it's rapid firing cannons could easily have put paid to all three B-52s. Why this never happened is a mystery to me.
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@Nitpicker
Not to be nitpickitty, but I think 1-2 B-52's were engaged and / or destroyed by Migs. I do recall at least 2 B-52 tail gunners credited with Mig Kills.
Not to be nitpickitty, but I think 1-2 B-52's were engaged and / or destroyed by Migs. I do recall at least 2 B-52 tail gunners credited with Mig Kills.
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Passenger safety not at risk for planes which fly over China's new air defence zone
The decision by Japanese airlines not to comply with Beijing's order to report flight plans before entering the newly established air defence identification zone (ADIZ) may fuel tension between the two countries, but passenger safety will not be compromised.
Technically speaking, whether or not the airlines report their plans to Beijing is a mere gesture.
All civilian aircraft are visible to radars across the globe as they have to report their position and altitude to different flying information regions (FIRs) covering one authority to another so as to maintain sufficient separation between them.
"The military can listen in on all the aircraft's identity and location so there is no need for airlines to provide separate information for Beijing to maintain safety," said Peter Lok Kung-nam, a former director of civil aviation in Hong Kong.
The air defence identification zone over the East China Sea declared by Beijing requires all planes to file flight plans to the Foreign Ministry or the Civil Aviation Administration of China and respond to the authority when they are passing by. China's armed forces would adopt defensive emergency measures against unidentified aircraft, the notice read.
"Airlines could not fall into the unidentified category as each aircraft flown is documented and its flight plans have already been approved by the civil aviation department," said Wang Yinsheng, director of the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association of China.
Japan Airlines, All Nippon Airways and Peach Aviation stopped reporting to the mainland authorities from yesterday under orders from the Tokyo government.
The Scheduled Airlines Association of Japan confirmed there would be no impact on the safety of passengers even if flight plans were not submitted to China.
Other carriers, such as Singapore Airlines and China Airlines, have complied with the rules. "Some of our flights fly over the airspace and we have been filing our flights plans with the Chinese authorities," said a Singapore Airlines spokesman.
The Taiwanese Civil Aeronautics Administration also urged its airlines to comply with the rules to avoid being classified as unidentified aircraft.
Cathay Pacific said its operations were unaffected, as it claimed the islands were actually theirs and would be sending A747s & B330s to patrol the ADIZ and answered to no one when complying with the rules.
Technically speaking, whether or not the airlines report their plans to Beijing is a mere gesture.
All civilian aircraft are visible to radars across the globe as they have to report their position and altitude to different flying information regions (FIRs) covering one authority to another so as to maintain sufficient separation between them.
"The military can listen in on all the aircraft's identity and location so there is no need for airlines to provide separate information for Beijing to maintain safety," said Peter Lok Kung-nam, a former director of civil aviation in Hong Kong.
The air defence identification zone over the East China Sea declared by Beijing requires all planes to file flight plans to the Foreign Ministry or the Civil Aviation Administration of China and respond to the authority when they are passing by. China's armed forces would adopt defensive emergency measures against unidentified aircraft, the notice read.
"Airlines could not fall into the unidentified category as each aircraft flown is documented and its flight plans have already been approved by the civil aviation department," said Wang Yinsheng, director of the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association of China.
Japan Airlines, All Nippon Airways and Peach Aviation stopped reporting to the mainland authorities from yesterday under orders from the Tokyo government.
The Scheduled Airlines Association of Japan confirmed there would be no impact on the safety of passengers even if flight plans were not submitted to China.
Other carriers, such as Singapore Airlines and China Airlines, have complied with the rules. "Some of our flights fly over the airspace and we have been filing our flights plans with the Chinese authorities," said a Singapore Airlines spokesman.
The Taiwanese Civil Aeronautics Administration also urged its airlines to comply with the rules to avoid being classified as unidentified aircraft.
Cathay Pacific said its operations were unaffected, as it claimed the islands were actually theirs and would be sending A747s & B330s to patrol the ADIZ and answered to no one when complying with the rules.
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Missed Opportunity:
nitpicker 330;
I passed under those B-52s on a number of occasions when they were westbound and each time it happened the flight deck went quiet. All conversation stopped and I often wondered if the others were thinking about the same things as I was. I doubt very much if you understand what I am saying so there is no point in elaborating.
BTW
In downtown Hanoi is a park, in the park is a lake ( named Huu Tiep Lake ) and in the lake is a B-52. It was shot down by Air Defence Missile Regiment No 285 on 27th dec 1972. The Vietnamese did not even bother to fish it out and it remains there as a tourist attraction. Known to the locals as "B52 Lake".
I passed under those B-52s on a number of occasions when they were westbound and each time it happened the flight deck went quiet. All conversation stopped and I often wondered if the others were thinking about the same things as I was. I doubt very much if you understand what I am saying so there is no point in elaborating.
BTW
In downtown Hanoi is a park, in the park is a lake ( named Huu Tiep Lake ) and in the lake is a B-52. It was shot down by Air Defence Missile Regiment No 285 on 27th dec 1972. The Vietnamese did not even bother to fish it out and it remains there as a tourist attraction. Known to the locals as "B52 Lake".
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Cathay Pacific said its operations were unaffected, as it claimed the islands were actually theirs and would be sending A747s & B330s to patrol the ADIZ and answered to no one when complying with the rules.
Haha, gold....
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OP...we know what side you are on! The one that will have to loose face when it cannot enforce the zone!
I'm sure the Chinese are not that stupid to shot down someone!
I'm sure the Chinese are not that stupid to shot down someone!
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So the yanks are doing this because they can to make the soda pop drinking fox news watching masses all jingoistic and fuzzy. Just imagine if China was flying aircraft 12 miles off the Golden Gate bridge, it'd be world war 3 in no time. Obviously that would be impossible for any Chinese aircraft but I'm just saying.
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Russians used to do it all the time and WW3 didn't start. They still run down the east coast once or twice a year, just to keep everyone in practice. Doesn't even make the news anymore.
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ADIZ stands for Air Defense Identification Zone. Flying into an ADIZ is not illegal, it simply means that the country intends to "identify" any unknown aircraft in its ADIZ. This can be done electronically or via a visual intercept. It is not a big deal, and yes, it used to happen all the time. The fighter/bomber pilots would wave and take pictures of each other. It was always a friendly affair, and it does still happen a couple times a year - without WW3.
The Chinese are being intentionally provocative over something trivial. It's hardly surprising given their callous behavior towards their neighbors and indeed their own people. Make no mistake, the communist party in China are thugs just like their Russian forefathers and their North Korean neighbors. The only difference is that they embraced capitalism so they could get rich off the cheap labor of one billion Chinese. This is hardly cause for celebration or pride.
The Chinese are being intentionally provocative over something trivial. It's hardly surprising given their callous behavior towards their neighbors and indeed their own people. Make no mistake, the communist party in China are thugs just like their Russian forefathers and their North Korean neighbors. The only difference is that they embraced capitalism so they could get rich off the cheap labor of one billion Chinese. This is hardly cause for celebration or pride.
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My understanding...
....is that it is the PLA that are spoiling for a fight. I'm certainly not excusing or condoning the CCPs' behavior or their ethos but China is a tale of 2 entities; the Government and the PLA, and the two are in a constant machiavellian power struggle with each other.
Do a search on Bloomberg for quotes on the issue from the likes of Kerry, Clinton and Hague etc. Interestingly, Xi made this issue a priority when he took over the Chairmanship of the CMC after coming to power - obviously it is still a work in progress.
Regardless, it is a very dangerous state of affairs when a very large military entity with some very personal scores to settle is politically allowed to run rampant in its neighbors' back yards. Stay safe my friends!
Bang
Do a search on Bloomberg for quotes on the issue from the likes of Kerry, Clinton and Hague etc. Interestingly, Xi made this issue a priority when he took over the Chairmanship of the CMC after coming to power - obviously it is still a work in progress.
Regardless, it is a very dangerous state of affairs when a very large military entity with some very personal scores to settle is politically allowed to run rampant in its neighbors' back yards. Stay safe my friends!
Bang
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Lacking either a real air force or navy relative to the United States, the Chinese should be very careful of whom they antagonize.
You know that there were a bunch of fighter jocks aboard a US carrier just wishing that the Chinese would shoot at a B-52, or even paint it.
China can act threatening toward Taiwan and Japan, but both have Uncle Sam as their backup and China should know this.
In terms of their economies, China needs the US more than the US needs China, so China would be wise to tread carefully.
When it comes to acts of war, unless someone is willing to push the button, the US still rules the seas and the air.
You know that there were a bunch of fighter jocks aboard a US carrier just wishing that the Chinese would shoot at a B-52, or even paint it.
China can act threatening toward Taiwan and Japan, but both have Uncle Sam as their backup and China should know this.
In terms of their economies, China needs the US more than the US needs China, so China would be wise to tread carefully.
When it comes to acts of war, unless someone is willing to push the button, the US still rules the seas and the air.