Now this is interesting-Dragon Air
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It would be lunacy for any F/O or narrow body Captain in KA to push for integration with CX especially during this growth cycle. It would be debatable as to whether there is advantage for less senior A330 Captains.
Excuse me Liam, what advantages are there for KA pilots in any unlikely integration talks? Why would we want to share expansion which translates to promotion for what I can see would only be staff travel benefits? Our senior pilots have their bone, a part time scheme, so we wouldn't want to put that in jeopardy.
If L2 sorts its ability to train pilots quickly enough, KA is very well placed to return to the days of rapid commands. Perhaps not the days of one to one and one-half years, but still.
Excuse me Liam, what advantages are there for KA pilots in any unlikely integration talks? Why would we want to share expansion which translates to promotion for what I can see would only be staff travel benefits? Our senior pilots have their bone, a part time scheme, so we wouldn't want to put that in jeopardy.
If L2 sorts its ability to train pilots quickly enough, KA is very well placed to return to the days of rapid commands. Perhaps not the days of one to one and one-half years, but still.
Last edited by And Then; 24th Oct 2013 at 06:53.
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Liam,
I'm sure that's the case. To be honest it's the same for us at KA. An integration with CX holds no attraction for most us as far as I can see, maybe the younger cadets would be happy with it (or the commuters) they have a long career ahead of them. Most of us are only here for the money, the job is what it is. If I were to move to CX on the bottom of your list I would be on a contract inferior to the one I'm on now, losing many benefits that even many of your B scalers don't get anymore.
Sam Ting Wong
Be under no illusions, nobody wants to come to CX, we're very happy with our lot. You can keep the bottom of your list for your cadets but thanks all the same
I'm sure that's the case. To be honest it's the same for us at KA. An integration with CX holds no attraction for most us as far as I can see, maybe the younger cadets would be happy with it (or the commuters) they have a long career ahead of them. Most of us are only here for the money, the job is what it is. If I were to move to CX on the bottom of your list I would be on a contract inferior to the one I'm on now, losing many benefits that even many of your B scalers don't get anymore.
Sam Ting Wong
Be under no illusions, nobody wants to come to CX, we're very happy with our lot. You can keep the bottom of your list for your cadets but thanks all the same
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Liam
You are probably right regarding most CX drivers. However there are probably a few who would love the chance to command a jet ( even an a320) and actually do a bit of flying.
A couple of years back KA had a course of cadets with nowhere to put then. They went to CX as second officers for 2 years. At the end of 2 years they were given the choice to come back to KA or stay at CX. They all chose to come back to KA. The reason. They all chose to be pilots to fly. They get 20 landings a month and a lot of stick time for the same money with KA.
Not everyone's cup of tea, but it suites some. Personally the idea of long haul leaves me cold. Even Beijing is too long a flight for me.
I'm not sure people understand how a combined Y seniority would work. Basically it's like this. The two arms of the Y represent current CX Pilots on the left and KA pilots on the right. If KAs most senior pilot wished to go to CX he would be lower in seniority than the most junior CX pilot. Effectively KA pilots would slot in at the bottom of CX seniority. The same would apply the other way. The most senior CX driver has lower KA seniority to the most junior KA pilot. CX pilots would slot in at the bottom of KA seniority if they wanted to fly a KA aircraft. Not many current pilots would want to do this, except maybe those who are very low on the current seniority.
Therefore this would probably make no difference to most present employees. However any new joiners from the date of implementation ( represented by the trunk of the Y) would have equal seniority in both companies. Therefore after 6 years when a command comes up on a KA 320 they can choose to go for it or stay with CX on the 777 as an FO until a command comes up there.
More choice, more variety. Can't see a problem there
Obviously there are areas of complications with contracts etc but the problems are not insurmountable
You are probably right regarding most CX drivers. However there are probably a few who would love the chance to command a jet ( even an a320) and actually do a bit of flying.
A couple of years back KA had a course of cadets with nowhere to put then. They went to CX as second officers for 2 years. At the end of 2 years they were given the choice to come back to KA or stay at CX. They all chose to come back to KA. The reason. They all chose to be pilots to fly. They get 20 landings a month and a lot of stick time for the same money with KA.
Not everyone's cup of tea, but it suites some. Personally the idea of long haul leaves me cold. Even Beijing is too long a flight for me.
I'm not sure people understand how a combined Y seniority would work. Basically it's like this. The two arms of the Y represent current CX Pilots on the left and KA pilots on the right. If KAs most senior pilot wished to go to CX he would be lower in seniority than the most junior CX pilot. Effectively KA pilots would slot in at the bottom of CX seniority. The same would apply the other way. The most senior CX driver has lower KA seniority to the most junior KA pilot. CX pilots would slot in at the bottom of KA seniority if they wanted to fly a KA aircraft. Not many current pilots would want to do this, except maybe those who are very low on the current seniority.
Therefore this would probably make no difference to most present employees. However any new joiners from the date of implementation ( represented by the trunk of the Y) would have equal seniority in both companies. Therefore after 6 years when a command comes up on a KA 320 they can choose to go for it or stay with CX on the 777 as an FO until a command comes up there.
More choice, more variety. Can't see a problem there
Obviously there are areas of complications with contracts etc but the problems are not insurmountable
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Quick question. Does Dragonair actually hire expat FO's?
I ask because the link at the start of the thread says they are "Desperately short of pilots. New 321s sat unused in Tolouse due to crew shortage." I've met the mins, including well over 1000hrs on a jet. (No Airbus time though)
I've updated my app several times in the last few months, but nothing more than a confirmation email.
I ask because the link at the start of the thread says they are "Desperately short of pilots. New 321s sat unused in Tolouse due to crew shortage." I've met the mins, including well over 1000hrs on a jet. (No Airbus time though)
I've updated my app several times in the last few months, but nothing more than a confirmation email.
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Box. It's not for you. You are more than welcome to stay where you are.You seem content being an FO on long haul , and that's cool. It's not for me either. I don't want to change and won't have to. It's for the future.
At some stage KA will be merged into CX. Cathay want their brand exposed more in China and there's no better way than through the KA brand ( Best regional in the world apparently). "Cathay Dragon" will happen. It would be nice to think we could be proactive rather than reactive with any integration. Senior guys couldn't give a fat rats arse, but junior guys are much more interested.
There has got to be a plan that is mutually beneficial. Perhaps now is the time to start considering it.
At some stage KA will be merged into CX. Cathay want their brand exposed more in China and there's no better way than through the KA brand ( Best regional in the world apparently). "Cathay Dragon" will happen. It would be nice to think we could be proactive rather than reactive with any integration. Senior guys couldn't give a fat rats arse, but junior guys are much more interested.
There has got to be a plan that is mutually beneficial. Perhaps now is the time to start considering it.
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I hear you giggerty. The thing is, from the CX side, I have not heard one peep from any colleagues either junior or senior about the possibility of us combining the companies. Not saying that there isn't interest from this side, but I surely haven't seen it yet.
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Seems as if all the interest is from KA guys posting as if they are CX. I doubt any CX pilot has a desire to fly an A320 to all parts of China and beyond. Different job - if you want the CX job, then apply to CX.
Pilots are our own worst enemies by posting our wishes and desires on this board. Sure. The DPA and AOA need to work together.... But not on integration. Worst idea ever! Think about a regional airline in the US, Europe or Oz trying to integrate with the major airline.... Guess what? Not going to happen!! I certainly understand the desire for KA guys to be on the CX list. My advice, make your money and go back to your home country and enjoy the clean air and nice people.
Pilots are our own worst enemies by posting our wishes and desires on this board. Sure. The DPA and AOA need to work together.... But not on integration. Worst idea ever! Think about a regional airline in the US, Europe or Oz trying to integrate with the major airline.... Guess what? Not going to happen!! I certainly understand the desire for KA guys to be on the CX list. My advice, make your money and go back to your home country and enjoy the clean air and nice people.
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I think KA pilots are completely misunderstood. No, we don't want to integrate. There is little appeal in being a CX pilot and I imagine senior CX pilots feel the same way about our job.
But yes, we would like something more, including common sense synergies and cooperations with our unions. Especially with hard nosed pay negotiations coming up!
Smaller issues too. For instance, when KA recruit new ground staff they are senior to us on staff travel at CX. So we are continually sliding backwards on staff travel whilst our office staff and managers enjoy CX privileges and have ignored our requests.
Probably goes both ways too. Current CX pilots may want to go to Bali, Penang or Cebu on Dragonair-since we seem to be given all the regional leisure flying. Only to be bumped by an KA MPL cadet.
Surely the above ring alarm bells in CX pilot ranks?
But yes, we would like something more, including common sense synergies and cooperations with our unions. Especially with hard nosed pay negotiations coming up!
Smaller issues too. For instance, when KA recruit new ground staff they are senior to us on staff travel at CX. So we are continually sliding backwards on staff travel whilst our office staff and managers enjoy CX privileges and have ignored our requests.
Probably goes both ways too. Current CX pilots may want to go to Bali, Penang or Cebu on Dragonair-since we seem to be given all the regional leisure flying. Only to be bumped by an KA MPL cadet.
Surely the above ring alarm bells in CX pilot ranks?
Last edited by And Then; 13th Nov 2013 at 12:57.
