NEW CONTINTENTAL/UNITED PILOT CONTRACT
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,539
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NEW CONTINTENTAL/UNITED PILOT CONTRACT
Just agreed to yesterday: New United/Continental pilot contract. Expect other US airlines to follow a similar template. The party begins....
to quote the WSJ:
...."under the pay deal, pay rates will jump between 12% and 38% immediately, depending on which aircraft a pilot flies. By early 2017, when the pact is open for renewal, the pilots will earn between 32% and 63% MORE than they do today, with the largest gains coming on the United side. The hourly pay of a 777 Captain with 12 years seniority (thats total seniority...not just as a Captain) will jump to $235 an hour once the signing bonus kicks in, from $190 an hour now at United, according to JP Morgan. A Captain on the 777 at Continental currently makes $193/hour. For a Captain flying 84 hours/month, the maximum average contemplated in the new contract, the 777 Captain would earn $237000/yr.
Additionally, the airline will will contribute 16% to a defined benefit (guaranteed payout) pension plan, AND offer guaranteed profit sharing (no CX style fuzzy formula crap).
It was announced yesterday that American Airlines will match the UA pay deal by 2015.
In conclusion, the new era of increasingly better and guaranteed pay is beginning in the US. CX had better stop playing the 'poor me' game...it's getting tedious and no one buys it. For those 38 or younger, and eligible, a career with a US carrier will almost certainly prove to be a happier one.
to quote the WSJ:
...."under the pay deal, pay rates will jump between 12% and 38% immediately, depending on which aircraft a pilot flies. By early 2017, when the pact is open for renewal, the pilots will earn between 32% and 63% MORE than they do today, with the largest gains coming on the United side. The hourly pay of a 777 Captain with 12 years seniority (thats total seniority...not just as a Captain) will jump to $235 an hour once the signing bonus kicks in, from $190 an hour now at United, according to JP Morgan. A Captain on the 777 at Continental currently makes $193/hour. For a Captain flying 84 hours/month, the maximum average contemplated in the new contract, the 777 Captain would earn $237000/yr.
Additionally, the airline will will contribute 16% to a defined benefit (guaranteed payout) pension plan, AND offer guaranteed profit sharing (no CX style fuzzy formula crap).
It was announced yesterday that American Airlines will match the UA pay deal by 2015.
In conclusion, the new era of increasingly better and guaranteed pay is beginning in the US. CX had better stop playing the 'poor me' game...it's getting tedious and no one buys it. For those 38 or younger, and eligible, a career with a US carrier will almost certainly prove to be a happier one.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agree with all the above. Look at all the CX investments (new planes, cargo terminals, aircraft retirements) just to NOT make huge profits. I'm not saying they are bad investments, quite the opposite. The future at CX is much better than a place like United, and they can afford to pay accordingly.
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Home.
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agree with the logic, they can pay better, BUT...they will pay as little as possible as long as they can attract what they need.
Attract they do and attract they will...
As we all know...we are our own enemy..
Attract they do and attract they will...
As we all know...we are our own enemy..
Last edited by RusCo; 18th Dec 2012 at 00:05.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: HK
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Actually, it is ending (the current round of negotiations in USA). The UA/CO deal is not as good as the DL deal it appears, i.e. UA ALPA tried to follow the DL template but couldn't match them. US is still stuck with a dysfunctional union, so expect no new contract there until/ unless they merge with AA.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Florida winter Utah summer
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's not a perfect contract but at least I don't have to live in some weird socialist country to have a flying job. 
Last edited by Airspeedintervention; 18th Dec 2012 at 05:38.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: crewbag
Age: 51
Posts: 318
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would like to know what you mean by younger than 38.
Most legacy and national carriers have/had an upper age limit for new joiners, based on several factors including higher medical costs and lower returns on initial training expenditures.
But that was before increased retirement age and before people were paying for their own ratings.
Thae magic number used to be in the upper 30s....
Join Date: May 2009
Location: VHHH Ocean 2D
Posts: 726
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Better money, conditions and lifestyle outside of CX and HK- this is fact.
But when it comes to job security (providing you keep your nose clean) the States is the last place I would ever want to go. The truth is in CX, even during the rough times - SARS/GFC for example, those at the bottom of the ladder didn't lose one second of sleep over their job security. Not many airlines can say the same.
I acknowledge however that for some, things are so dire right now, that going elsewhere is worth the risk. I'm not one of them though
But when it comes to job security (providing you keep your nose clean) the States is the last place I would ever want to go. The truth is in CX, even during the rough times - SARS/GFC for example, those at the bottom of the ladder didn't lose one second of sleep over their job security. Not many airlines can say the same.
I acknowledge however that for some, things are so dire right now, that going elsewhere is worth the risk. I'm not one of them though
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Home.
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The pay is hard to beat..
HOWEVER...for me, living in one of the most expensive, crowded, polluted places in the world, oh and the shoebox, promises of basings...well, the money ain't worth it.
HOWEVER...for me, living in one of the most expensive, crowded, polluted places in the world, oh and the shoebox, promises of basings...well, the money ain't worth it.
Last edited by RusCo; 18th Dec 2012 at 17:50.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: hong kong
Posts: 241
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the money ain't worth it.
So RusCo, are you going to do something about it or just complain?
I posted somewhere else that we all moan, some more than others, about how bad things are and how much better they are elsewhere but very, very few ever leave. Not everyone can be in the seniority trap so why don't pilots leave CX in any numbers? Are you going to leave RusCo?
I posted somewhere else that we all moan, some more than others, about how bad things are and how much better they are elsewhere but very, very few ever leave. Not everyone can be in the seniority trap so why don't pilots leave CX in any numbers? Are you going to leave RusCo?
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Home.
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AnAmused Reader....
I have written in MY previous posts that I have already applied to FedEx, UPS, Delta and United, (just added US Airways to the list). I have also taken the kids out of school in Hong Kong., they will be starting school in january at home. My 750,000 dollar shoe box is for sale. So, yes, I am doing something about it.
As far as the seniority trap...there is no seniority at cx, what there are are golden handcuffs. But what few fail to realize is yes one makes a good amount of money, 10 year SFO, plus housing plus schooling and that all adds up to more than any Captain at the above airlines, HOWEVER...Hong Kong, as you all know, is extremely expensive so any money made is spent.
So yes...I am leaving. I have no bad feelings for CX, I enjoy flying the routes, I enjoy flying with the great guys and gals..I just can no longer take living in Hong Kong.
If only the bases had opened, but waiting 3 plus years for a so called announcement is enough. I am not getting any younger...and the carrot is not getting any closer...
I have written in MY previous posts that I have already applied to FedEx, UPS, Delta and United, (just added US Airways to the list). I have also taken the kids out of school in Hong Kong., they will be starting school in january at home. My 750,000 dollar shoe box is for sale. So, yes, I am doing something about it.
As far as the seniority trap...there is no seniority at cx, what there are are golden handcuffs. But what few fail to realize is yes one makes a good amount of money, 10 year SFO, plus housing plus schooling and that all adds up to more than any Captain at the above airlines, HOWEVER...Hong Kong, as you all know, is extremely expensive so any money made is spent.
So yes...I am leaving. I have no bad feelings for CX, I enjoy flying the routes, I enjoy flying with the great guys and gals..I just can no longer take living in Hong Kong.
If only the bases had opened, but waiting 3 plus years for a so called announcement is enough. I am not getting any younger...and the carrot is not getting any closer...
Last edited by RusCo; 19th Dec 2012 at 13:07.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: heads down trying to figure out Chinese RVSM
Posts: 200
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[QUOTE] So yes...I am leaving. I have no bad feelings for CX, I enjoy flying the routes, I enjoy flying with the great guys and gals..I just can no longer take living in Hong Kong.
If only the bases had opened, but waiting 3 plus years for a so called announcement is enough. I am not getting any younger...and the carrot is not getting any closer...QUOTE]
I've done the same - No ill feelings against CX - I understand "Business is Business". Since Hall nor Lomax cannot be honest to tell us what is happening with Bases, then I need to take matters into my own hands. My Family comes first - this is just a job.
If only the bases had opened, but waiting 3 plus years for a so called announcement is enough. I am not getting any younger...and the carrot is not getting any closer...QUOTE]
I've done the same - No ill feelings against CX - I understand "Business is Business". Since Hall nor Lomax cannot be honest to tell us what is happening with Bases, then I need to take matters into my own hands. My Family comes first - this is just a job.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Milky Way
Posts: 218
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't know why people think the company is waiting to announce something on bases. Their continuance of not saying anything after 3 years says it all. They won't come out and say there will be no more bases because they fear (correctly) many of us on those bases will leave. This is especially poignant in the US where hiring at legacy carriers has begun.
If your plans include going to HKG, then stay. If you do not want to go, or you want to leave HKG, then apply. The day for bases at CX is over and with it is the opportunity for command on those bases. Unfortunately, those are the things that attracted most of the hiring since 2004 so I would expect between 100-200 to leave in the next 3 years. For those that choose to stay, there will be no real improvement in seniority since those that left were all junior in the first place. Interestingly, when those pilots leave they will be backfilled by inexpensive cadets on an inferior housing package.
If you ask me, CX are pretty smart for keeping quiet.
If your plans include going to HKG, then stay. If you do not want to go, or you want to leave HKG, then apply. The day for bases at CX is over and with it is the opportunity for command on those bases. Unfortunately, those are the things that attracted most of the hiring since 2004 so I would expect between 100-200 to leave in the next 3 years. For those that choose to stay, there will be no real improvement in seniority since those that left were all junior in the first place. Interestingly, when those pilots leave they will be backfilled by inexpensive cadets on an inferior housing package.
If you ask me, CX are pretty smart for keeping quiet.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: At Home
Posts: 178
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The good thing about golden handcuffs is that if you are wise, you can take some of the gold and stock it up so that you can comfortably manage to leave.
DAL/SWA/FDX/UAL first year is now no different than CX's first year on a base.
If you aspire to be a Captain in the US at some point in your career, a move to a US legacy is needed. If you and your family are prepared to go to HKG, than there is no need.
BTW.....in 2017 UAL A380 tops out at $391/hr
(I know they don't have any)....
DAL/SWA/FDX/UAL first year is now no different than CX's first year on a base.
If you aspire to be a Captain in the US at some point in your career, a move to a US legacy is needed. If you and your family are prepared to go to HKG, than there is no need.
BTW.....in 2017 UAL A380 tops out at $391/hr
(I know they don't have any)....
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: hong kong
Posts: 241
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So yes...I am leaving.
Although addressed to you, my comment was meant more for ALL those who say they are going to do what you have done. Good luck with your applications.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Silberfuchs
Not sure you've done your homework with that Norwegian gig. Whatever anyone decides, stay away from it. The contract is utterly dreadful.
NCA remains about the joy decent 'contract' position out there. Still, my opinion of contract flying for scheduled airlines remains low - a lifeline for those laid-off, etc. NCA bucks the trend (slightly), but remember what you lose, too.
NCA remains about the joy decent 'contract' position out there. Still, my opinion of contract flying for scheduled airlines remains low - a lifeline for those laid-off, etc. NCA bucks the trend (slightly), but remember what you lose, too.