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July Freighter PX

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July Freighter PX

Old 16th Jun 2012, 02:39
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July Freighter PX

So they are still rostering PXing on the freighter for July with the newly published roster. Are they planning to change this in the coming days?

PS...Didn't sign

Last edited by joejet; 16th Jun 2012 at 02:40.
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Old 16th Jun 2012, 02:42
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Join Date: May 2003
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None on my roster a complete change in my rostering compared last 6 months
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Old 16th Jun 2012, 03:14
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I was happy to see that I'm rostered to PX on a pax flight to man a freighter flight back to HKG.
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Old 16th Jun 2012, 05:00
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Joejet,

Please check the credit on your freighter px when the real time roster comes out and report back...
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Old 18th Jun 2012, 13:47
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So I have HKG-DAC-HAN-HKG on my July roster. And they still have 4 crew rostered (2 cap/2 fo) but no one listed as PX. My credit for each sec 1.14 whereas before, 4 crew would be rostered and 2 would PX at a credit of 0.5 for two of the sectors. Nice to get full credit while sitting in the back but it's still a long crappy day for two of the crew.
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Old 19th Jun 2012, 06:43
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So the pattern is being done with the same number of crew costing more credit hours and, most importantly, in a more fatiguing manner. The crew operating the last sector will be the operating pair who will of had in flight relief for the cruise only and will be doing a 3 sector day. Previously the crew operating the third sector had done 2 x PX sectors and chilled out for the whole pattern up to Hanoi. Safety is our priority!!
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Old 19th Jun 2012, 07:35
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Previously the crew operating the third sector had done 2 x PX sectors and chilled out for the whole pattern up to Hanoi.
Yip, except you weren't getting paid for it!

Safety is our priority!!
Did you expect that it would somehow be different???
We were always going to come off second best, oh well ASR-F by the bucket load to follow
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Old 19th Jun 2012, 12:27
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PX now PT. Not as convenient to get home, and duty days still very long, but that is something to address another day.
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Old 19th Jun 2012, 21:16
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For those Airbus and 777 crews who have never been exposed to these patterns, please take our word for it when we say they are incredibly fatiguing.

To drag the second crew, who operate the third sector, through 10 hours of PX prior to their operating the third sector (counted as the first sector as far as the FTL's were concerned) on a day that has you leave home first thing in the morning and arrive back home near midnight is brutal; and to do this several times in a month makes the cumulative fatigue even more difficult to cope with.

First crew should get off at the second stop and rest in a hotel. Second crew should PX on a pax aircraft to operate the third sector back to HKG.

Alternatively, pay us full credit as they are doing now, to dissuade them from rostering such fatiguing patterns.,
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Old 19th Jun 2012, 22:36
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Is safety a concern? Are you fit to complete the duty? if not, call in 'can not' due fatigue. Whilst guys do it, it will be rostered.
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Old 19th Jun 2012, 23:16
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Raven,

They'd only have to do that the first time that they put a crew in the hotel. On the second and subsequent days, the crew in the hotel would operate the 3rd sector back to Hkg. Obviously the cheap, busted arse hotel that they've looked at must charge too much.
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Old 20th Jun 2012, 07:22
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Flaps10, I don't understand how putting four guys on makes it legal? As I recall the flight times are not really long enough to give four people each three hours rest in order to extend FDP?

Can you give us a bit more detail, ie total length of FDP, whether the four guys are based (ie. Unacclimatised) or not etc?
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Old 20th Jun 2012, 12:14
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Table A Max FDP 3 sector day: 12 hrs 30. Departs HKG 1330 back in HKG 0115. Thus if all runs on rails FDP 12 hrs 55. In flight relief of say 3 hrs provided to operating pair gives them an extension of 1 hr 30 min. Relief crew get no IFR and so burn out on third sector. CX are giving relief crew full credit hours for this third sector even though 'burnt out'. So I guess this means that the "is this PXing on the freighter" question does not raise its head??
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Old 20th Jun 2012, 18:24
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744drv,

I was wondering the same. In NAM freighter ops, an FO will sometimes burn out prior to the end of the second sector (MIA-IAH-ANC and JFK-ORD-ANC) and "rides" the rest of the way but is still part of the operating crew and credited accordingly. So, I think this is not freighter PXing. That said, the pattern still lacks flexibility. Why use four crew this way when it would be so much better, and cheaper creditwise, to put crew on KA to/from HAN. It seems ridiculous.
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Old 21st Jun 2012, 05:33
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Why use four crew this way when it would be so much better, and cheaper creditwise, to put crew on KA to/from HAN. It seems ridiculous.
cos they can and they are trying to prove a point!

call it "cutting your nose off, to spite your face"
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Old 21st Jun 2012, 06:15
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So, I think this is not freighter PXing
It IS freighter PXing. The "burnout" clause says after burning out, the rest of the time will be classed as "PXing", you are not legal to operate any longer because your FDP has expired.

This clause is not meant to be used on the freighter since freighter PXing is not allowed. In order for CC to roster you for this pattern they would need to ask you if you are willing to PX on the freighter.

Guys, in order for the company to stop abusing you contract, you need to uphold it yourself.
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Old 21st Jun 2012, 13:01
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If it were a Line Check or a CAD inspection, it would a brave PF and PM who did anything other than establish the aircraft in the cruise, and then brief the relief crew. They would then be back in the operating seats 60 mins before landing. It is therefore hard to see how 3 hours rest is achieved in the first 2 sectors.

Why operate any different than you would on a Line Check?
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