Blame Canada!!
Join Date: Sep 2006
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So what is the real story in the latest "South Park" episode?
The rank and file members of the minority syndicate were probably not aware that the action of their questionable leaders of the tiny group would lead them never being able to afford another ticket on their own and they well may have lost the expertise and financial position and protection of the 3 syndicates forever unless they act to sack those who made this "mines bigger than yours" idiotic decision to leave the union!
Join Date: Nov 2006
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At least now we know that some of these guys are the selfish tossers that we already thought they were! Unbelievable.
This doesn't have anything to do with A scale to 65, does it?
This doesn't have anything to do with A scale to 65, does it?
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Canada
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Here is another perfect example of many talking about something they know nothing about. I'm surprised the shallow few haven't jumped in with the anonymous name calling.
The reality is AOA CANADA needs to finalize their contract negotiations for a number of reasons. It is not about making side deals or seeking special concessions. It is about having a contract that reflects the Canadian reality. To keep the negotiations continuing until many of the issues in HKG were resolved was simply unacceptable. That could drag on indefinitely.
Many of us, myself included, are pleased to see this move. The feeling is that the HKAOA never really represented us on the Basings. I'm looking forward to this new era.
The reality is AOA CANADA needs to finalize their contract negotiations for a number of reasons. It is not about making side deals or seeking special concessions. It is about having a contract that reflects the Canadian reality. To keep the negotiations continuing until many of the issues in HKG were resolved was simply unacceptable. That could drag on indefinitely.
Many of us, myself included, are pleased to see this move. The feeling is that the HKAOA never really represented us on the Basings. I'm looking forward to this new era.
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WCC,
If the timetable of the minority was to be paramount in the discussions then the minority (ie AOAC) should have paid their own way for their legals and admin.
If the paymaster (or at least majority paymaster ie HKAOA) dictated otherwise then the paymaster overrides all other considerations. In essence "you get what you pay for."
Finalisation for "a number of reasons" - given the numbers and $ involved why is AOAC generalising and not being more specific, not here on this forum but on the AOA forum where members with "skin in the game" can make decisions to the veracity of the reasons given?
Whilst I agree your path from here on in is better for you folk, the path your committee used to get here on the surface is immoral at best.
You (AOAC) have a lot of explaining to do
Good luck.
If the timetable of the minority was to be paramount in the discussions then the minority (ie AOAC) should have paid their own way for their legals and admin.
If the paymaster (or at least majority paymaster ie HKAOA) dictated otherwise then the paymaster overrides all other considerations. In essence "you get what you pay for."
Finalisation for "a number of reasons" - given the numbers and $ involved why is AOAC generalising and not being more specific, not here on this forum but on the AOA forum where members with "skin in the game" can make decisions to the veracity of the reasons given?
Whilst I agree your path from here on in is better for you folk, the path your committee used to get here on the surface is immoral at best.
You (AOAC) have a lot of explaining to do
Good luck.
Last edited by fire wall; 30th May 2012 at 15:27.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Here is another perfect example of many talking about something they know nothing about.
Since you seem to have some inside info about the whole process, maybe you could share with rest of us how you will handle PX'ng on the freighters?
I heard you will agree to it (with no changes to the current credit time) just to save YVR as freighter base...
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Mr Firewall,
I enjoy having a mature discussion with someone who likes to deal solely with the facts.
The timing of this action is purely coincidental. And, if you look at the facts, it was the HKAOA that dictated the ultimatum, not the AOA Canada. The reality is that we require closure of our negotiations here in Canada, for a number of reasons. We cannot, and more importantly will not, let them drag on indefinitely.
My hat is off to our leadership for taking a firm stand on behalf of our members.
As one would expect, the question of $ always comes up and in this case many are asking about that specifically. If you look at the numbers, you will see that the subs submitted to the HKAOA by our Canadian based members since on shoring, have more than covered the costs. Remember, one has to pay dues in Canada in some form, so the vast majority pay to the union.
Going forward, negotiations will be interesting as both employer and employee have to negotiate in good faith. Just take a look at what happened to the YVR cabin crew. CX threatened to close the base, as one would expect, but the cabin crew have a new contract and I think the base is still there.
Perhaps it is you that I should wish good luck.
I enjoy having a mature discussion with someone who likes to deal solely with the facts.
The timing of this action is purely coincidental. And, if you look at the facts, it was the HKAOA that dictated the ultimatum, not the AOA Canada. The reality is that we require closure of our negotiations here in Canada, for a number of reasons. We cannot, and more importantly will not, let them drag on indefinitely.
My hat is off to our leadership for taking a firm stand on behalf of our members.
As one would expect, the question of $ always comes up and in this case many are asking about that specifically. If you look at the numbers, you will see that the subs submitted to the HKAOA by our Canadian based members since on shoring, have more than covered the costs. Remember, one has to pay dues in Canada in some form, so the vast majority pay to the union.
Going forward, negotiations will be interesting as both employer and employee have to negotiate in good faith. Just take a look at what happened to the YVR cabin crew. CX threatened to close the base, as one would expect, but the cabin crew have a new contract and I think the base is still there.
Perhaps it is you that I should wish good luck.
Join Date: Aug 2008
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I have to admit, regardless Canada's reasons for leaving, that I'm glad to not be paying their way anymore. My money does come with the stipulation that it has to serve the greater good of the pilot group. I trust DD implicitly, and if he says that AOA Canada needs to be team players with their CBA timing then I am glad there was an ultimatum given. If Canada wants to go its own way, then they can pay for everything themselves.
Canucks, I'm guessing your subs are heading one way only... UP. Enjoy!!!
Canucks, I'm guessing your subs are heading one way only... UP. Enjoy!!!
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WCC,
You wish to base this discussion on facts and for that I am grateful.
Please explain how you marry the word "facts" with the explanation that closure was required "for a number of reasons". This is not a statement of fact.
Again, I request AOAC provide FULL disclosure on the HKAOA forum, at the least a detailed rebuttal of a comprehensive "lie of the land" from PW.
Given "we" have supported you in this endeavour then I think we are owed at least this much.
You wish to base this discussion on facts and for that I am grateful.
Please explain how you marry the word "facts" with the explanation that closure was required "for a number of reasons". This is not a statement of fact.
Again, I request AOAC provide FULL disclosure on the HKAOA forum, at the least a detailed rebuttal of a comprehensive "lie of the land" from PW.
Given "we" have supported you in this endeavour then I think we are owed at least this much.
Going forward, negotiations will be interesting as both employer and employee have to negotiate in good faith.
Join Date: Nov 2007
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It would seem that AOA Canada has fallen short on its Communications with the AOA membership.
Currently the vast majority of the AOA membership have only heard the GC "side of the story", and are mainly feeling disappointed and frustrated. There are a few of us in HKG who get some information from based mates, but the real story seems very muddled.
Surely there should be some mechanism for the TU's to update the whole membership on their perspective of the issues? Individuals opinions posted on the AOA forums hardly count!
In addition, I thought that the Canadian Government had quite strict issues regarding employment of local personnel for foreign Airlines. Base closures are an easy threat for Management, but they would probably incur a loss of slots etc.
Currently the vast majority of the AOA membership have only heard the GC "side of the story", and are mainly feeling disappointed and frustrated. There are a few of us in HKG who get some information from based mates, but the real story seems very muddled.
Surely there should be some mechanism for the TU's to update the whole membership on their perspective of the issues? Individuals opinions posted on the AOA forums hardly count!
In addition, I thought that the Canadian Government had quite strict issues regarding employment of local personnel for foreign Airlines. Base closures are an easy threat for Management, but they would probably incur a loss of slots etc.
