Virgin v CX Staff Travel
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I agree with everything airdualbleedfault said.
The only good thing about QF was the staff travel website, fantastic.
I'll guarantee that CX won't get this right.
As for HK staff check-in at CLK, the lot of them should be sent to the worst airport in the network to see how its done.
It could only improve their service, the most unhelpful of any place in the world.
The only good thing about QF was the staff travel website, fantastic.
I'll guarantee that CX won't get this right.
As for HK staff check-in at CLK, the lot of them should be sent to the worst airport in the network to see how its done.
It could only improve their service, the most unhelpful of any place in the world.
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Dan Winterland, you wrote, in response to my question, ''I wonder what VS (or BA or LH or any other airline) charges ITS employees for the same trip!''
First of all, we're not talking about taxes. We're talking about the fares the airlines charge their employees. Taxes are the same across airlines (as far as I know) and therefore are not relevant.
Secondly, the fares CX charges its employees are NOT standard interline ZED rates. The economy class fares CX charges are (based on what I've seen) less than ZED rates. HOWEVER, the fares CX charges its employees for business class travel or first class travel are more than FIVE TIMES HIGHER than other airlines charge their employees.
There is no justification for an airline to make a profit from its employees who fly in a seat that would otherwise go empty.
They will probably be the same. These are the standard Interline ZED rates. The ID90 rates will change depending on the airline's pricing policy. The LHR figures are subjuct to UK Air Passenger Duty, which is the highest in the world. A business class ticket from LHR to HKG currently has GBP 150 (HKD 1800) tax payable on departure.
Secondly, the fares CX charges its employees are NOT standard interline ZED rates. The economy class fares CX charges are (based on what I've seen) less than ZED rates. HOWEVER, the fares CX charges its employees for business class travel or first class travel are more than FIVE TIMES HIGHER than other airlines charge their employees.
There is no justification for an airline to make a profit from its employees who fly in a seat that would otherwise go empty.
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Timely
This is a timely subject for me....I just got a J class boarding pass for a flight, I had specifically stated at the staff travel desk that I would not travel in Y class and yet, when I get to the gate to board, hang on, now your seat is 69C....so I say cannot and back to staff travel. I was told by the supervisor at the gate that someone had pulled out an upgrade voucher, fair enough, but once the flight is closed for check in and we are given the J class seat, how then can we get to the gate and be just changed to Y class? I'm certain this is against what BN said would not happen to us if we presented a J class ticket? Rant over
As an aside, it was within 4 hours of the next departure, to a different, but close destination, so how would this now work with ijourney? Inside 4 hours, no ticket, no listing...and again, if I miss that flight, the next one is only 2.5 hours later....and why is it called "i" journey....? We are not Apple, that's for sure!!!!
As an aside, it was within 4 hours of the next departure, to a different, but close destination, so how would this now work with ijourney? Inside 4 hours, no ticket, no listing...and again, if I miss that flight, the next one is only 2.5 hours later....and why is it called "i" journey....? We are not Apple, that's for sure!!!!
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In that case VS is essentially free - the taxes on LON-HKG return (in economy) come to 116-117 pounds at the moment, so VS will get zero.
Cathay adds 85 pounds to that (so CX gets 85, government & airports get 116) for a price of about 200
Cathay adds 85 pounds to that (so CX gets 85, government & airports get 116) for a price of about 200
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Spanner and Broadband,
Who are you to draw the line between what are acceptable factors when deciding "who gets on" during leisure travel, and what makes you think you are right?
Why should company-wide seniority determine ID travel priority? Do you think doing so is fair to those who spend 10 or 20 years acquiring the skills and experience to get hired at CX, while others learn to serve drinks and open a door at 19 yrs old and end up with 10 or 20 yrs more seniority than someone like a pilot? Do you really think different levels of employees do not have different levels of benefits to attract and retain them? Why is salary OK with you, but not leisure travel? Why are leisure travel advantages not as important as salary advantages? Or housing?
There's a financial reason pilots on duty travel have a higher priority than the Queen, and FAs on duty too, but what is so wrong about rewarding that significantly higher level of importance and critical value to the financial success of the company? It doesn't matter how many of the other 20000 employees do their jobs well: If the pilots aren't there to fly the planes, nothing happens. So why not reward them with something that matters a lot to their lifestyle and job satisfaction when (most) live very far from their home countries: Better leisure travel priority.
Do you think cabin crew and sim instructors get the same level of housing assistance? Should that be based on seniority? Do you think local employees should have the same FOC travel priority 4 tickets as expats who are promised one high-priority (not that it works) trip home per year? Do you think a Finance Director or Manager from Swire Coca Cola or the RAF or Bank of China, new to the company, gets on a flight only after a more senior BC get on? Do you think a DEFO or DEC, but able to list in J, gets on only after a more senior secretary? The list of differences goes on and on and on. Not everything is based on seniority, and not everything should be.
Until recently, the willingness to take lower paying jobs with worse working conditions (no housing, higher tax, commuting expenses, more roster disruptions, lower pay) has led to many pilots' promotions, not seniority. Leave is not awarded in seniority. Neither are rosters, requests, W's, type changes or basings, etc., despite numerous contracts and agreements. Why was/is that OK?
Do you think staff travel bumps BN out of J to upgrade their friend back there in overbooked Y?
Rank has its privileges, and leisure travel is already one of them. Are you asking them to give that away too?
Who are you to draw the line between what are acceptable factors when deciding "who gets on" during leisure travel, and what makes you think you are right?
Why should company-wide seniority determine ID travel priority? Do you think doing so is fair to those who spend 10 or 20 years acquiring the skills and experience to get hired at CX, while others learn to serve drinks and open a door at 19 yrs old and end up with 10 or 20 yrs more seniority than someone like a pilot? Do you really think different levels of employees do not have different levels of benefits to attract and retain them? Why is salary OK with you, but not leisure travel? Why are leisure travel advantages not as important as salary advantages? Or housing?
There's a financial reason pilots on duty travel have a higher priority than the Queen, and FAs on duty too, but what is so wrong about rewarding that significantly higher level of importance and critical value to the financial success of the company? It doesn't matter how many of the other 20000 employees do their jobs well: If the pilots aren't there to fly the planes, nothing happens. So why not reward them with something that matters a lot to their lifestyle and job satisfaction when (most) live very far from their home countries: Better leisure travel priority.
Do you think cabin crew and sim instructors get the same level of housing assistance? Should that be based on seniority? Do you think local employees should have the same FOC travel priority 4 tickets as expats who are promised one high-priority (not that it works) trip home per year? Do you think a Finance Director or Manager from Swire Coca Cola or the RAF or Bank of China, new to the company, gets on a flight only after a more senior BC get on? Do you think a DEFO or DEC, but able to list in J, gets on only after a more senior secretary? The list of differences goes on and on and on. Not everything is based on seniority, and not everything should be.
Until recently, the willingness to take lower paying jobs with worse working conditions (no housing, higher tax, commuting expenses, more roster disruptions, lower pay) has led to many pilots' promotions, not seniority. Leave is not awarded in seniority. Neither are rosters, requests, W's, type changes or basings, etc., despite numerous contracts and agreements. Why was/is that OK?
Do you think staff travel bumps BN out of J to upgrade their friend back there in overbooked Y?
Rank has its privileges, and leisure travel is already one of them. Are you asking them to give that away too?
Iron Skillet
If you can name one airline anywhere in the world that treats their pilots above other employees when it comes to staff travel, I might listen to you. Just like you I am a line driver but unlike you I don’t have a problem with any other staff members getting priority over me with staff travel if they joined CX before I did. As for the rest of your post, it’s totally irrelevant to this discussion.
If you can name one airline anywhere in the world that treats their pilots above other employees when it comes to staff travel, I might listen to you. Just like you I am a line driver but unlike you I don’t have a problem with any other staff members getting priority over me with staff travel if they joined CX before I did. As for the rest of your post, it’s totally irrelevant to this discussion.
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404, QF is one such airline, however I'm with, you I have no problem with CX staff that joined before me having a higher priority. The way I see it I can afford to go J class and bump them if I so choose.
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Leisure travel priority guys: I asked why you think it's ok, not if you think it's ok.
SMOC: Why don't employees senior to you get to do the same thing you do regarding bumping by paying for J class, if you think seniority is more important than employee level?
SMOC: Why don't employees senior to you get to do the same thing you do regarding bumping by paying for J class, if you think seniority is more important than employee level?
BaronBlue
Just so we can make a comparison how much is a normal staff ticket LHR-HKG return? As for our “free” sectors, we only get four and like you guys we have to pay all the taxes which really doesn’t make them free at all.
Just so we can make a comparison how much is a normal staff ticket LHR-HKG return? As for our “free” sectors, we only get four and like you guys we have to pay all the taxes which really doesn’t make them free at all.
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As for the free sectors, we get 4 unless as mentioned above, unless we want/need (usually need) the higher priority to your home country (to the port from near where you were hired and were flown from to HKG) then it is only 2 sectors (not that that works as intended, either, but it can).
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SMOC: Why don't employees senior to you get to do the same thing you do regarding bumping by paying for J class, if you think seniority is more important than employee level?
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Right there, that last paragraph, makes me wonder if you work for CX at all.
Staff travel, fortunately, is the one area where seniority is actually respected in CX. DECs have always, and will always, have to wait their turn.
Staff travel, fortunately, is the one area where seniority is actually respected in CX. DECs have always, and will always, have to wait their turn.
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Seniority, respected?
Cpt. Underpants,
You wrote
I must disagree with you. After an experience with staff travel where seniority was NOT respected, BN told me, directly to my face that FOC ticket "bookings" are confirmed randomly and not in seniority order.
Therefore, although you may be a 25-year captain with a waitlisted PRI4B FOC on a particular flight, another staff member, junior to you, may have his or her PRI4B FOC CONFIRMED while you are still waitlisted. That person, junior to you, will get a seat on the plane before you do.
If you don't believe me, ask BN, flight control or anyone in the BSC.
This behavior completely invalidates the entire "seniority-based" staff travel system at CX.
You wrote
Staff travel, fortunately, is the one area where seniority is actually respected in CX.
Therefore, although you may be a 25-year captain with a waitlisted PRI4B FOC on a particular flight, another staff member, junior to you, may have his or her PRI4B FOC CONFIRMED while you are still waitlisted. That person, junior to you, will get a seat on the plane before you do.
If you don't believe me, ask BN, flight control or anyone in the BSC.
This behavior completely invalidates the entire "seniority-based" staff travel system at CX.
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I doubt if FOCs are booked randomly. I imagine it would be on a first come first served basis, as there are just a few slots available on each flight, even when loadings are not too bad. That’s fair enough I guess, as one would want an element of certainty (or at least as much as is possible with a priority 14).
You probably wouldn’t be too thrilled if you were confirmed and then went back to the waitlist to accommodate an FOC confirmation for a more senior staff member. What happens if that person subsequently cancels? It would be an endless cycle of bookings and cancellations and reinstatement of bookings etc. and would probably require extra staff travel personnel just to keep on top of things.
Having that sort of system would make the concept of FOC bookings quite pointless as you’d never know whose seniority is going to trump yours till pretty late in the day. There are probably ways of getting around that by placing restrictions on the time frames when bookings can be made on each flight, but that would probably come with its own set of problems.
You probably wouldn’t be too thrilled if you were confirmed and then went back to the waitlist to accommodate an FOC confirmation for a more senior staff member. What happens if that person subsequently cancels? It would be an endless cycle of bookings and cancellations and reinstatement of bookings etc. and would probably require extra staff travel personnel just to keep on top of things.
Having that sort of system would make the concept of FOC bookings quite pointless as you’d never know whose seniority is going to trump yours till pretty late in the day. There are probably ways of getting around that by placing restrictions on the time frames when bookings can be made on each flight, but that would probably come with its own set of problems.
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Yep, fairly sure that FOC are on first come first served basis, and if on wait list, who ever booked first gets the seat if seats come available.
FOC is a catch 22 often. If the flight is open, why 'waste' a FOC on it, just use ID90. But if the flight isn't open, chance of FOC being confirmed is... slim
FOC is a catch 22 often. If the flight is open, why 'waste' a FOC on it, just use ID90. But if the flight isn't open, chance of FOC being confirmed is... slim
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SMOC,
Are you saying that a 1st year BC with lots of money can list for and pay for a J class seat and trump more senior staff who is listed in Y?
I don't have the reference now, but I'm pretty sure that person with that employee level could only list in Y regardless of their cash flow. J duty and leisure travel is an ISM benefit, as with pilots, I believe.
Are you saying that a 1st year BC with lots of money can list for and pay for a J class seat and trump more senior staff who is listed in Y?
I don't have the reference now, but I'm pretty sure that person with that employee level could only list in Y regardless of their cash flow. J duty and leisure travel is an ISM benefit, as with pilots, I believe.
Iron Skillet
All CX employees are entitled to unlimited zoned tickets each year in both Y & J class after six months of continuous service with the company. So yes a 1st year BC could potentially bump me if they listed in J and I listed in Y.
All CX employees are entitled to unlimited zoned tickets each year in both Y & J class after six months of continuous service with the company. So yes a 1st year BC could potentially bump me if they listed in J and I listed in Y.