Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

F/O for life

Old 10th Jan 2012, 01:10
  #61 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a
You won't ever have to read it again!!!
Old 10th Jan 2012, 01:43
  #62 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Asia
Posts: 335
Thread Creep

Serious Thread Creep

The fact remains that an SO joining today is looking at 3 or 4 times the historic wait to go from back seat to left seat.

That is a lot of potential systemic abuse.

Happy thoughts.............
Five Green is offline  
Old 10th Jan 2012, 14:33
  #63 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Cathay City
Age: 61
Posts: 30
PK, your horrendous yet unique grammar gives you away with each sentence!
RS, your cloak isn't much better.
whackthemole is offline  
Old 10th Jan 2012, 16:42
  #64 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cupboard
Posts: 264
Cloak still working. Still trying to think of an RS to make a joke about!

Last edited by Iron Skillet; 11th Jan 2012 at 02:01.
Iron Skillet is offline  
Old 11th Jan 2012, 03:51
  #65 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cupboard
Posts: 264
OK! I gave, so now I get! Call me RS from now on!
Iron Skillet is offline  
Old 11th Jan 2012, 23:10
  #66 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In front of the PC
Posts: 305

You seems to have a beef with guys who stayed on Cos99. I'm guessing you are not, and can further only assume that you are either too young or too stupid (or both) to have any real perspective on life. Many guys stayed on Cos99 for 1 or more of the following 3 reasons:

1. Who wants to be doing this crap at 60 or 65, when we could be enjoying our retirement with what's left of our joints at 55?
2. The company's initial 'offer' to change (if you could really call it that) was pathetic, and whether or not they improve the enticement is secondary to the obvious fact that the initial offer did not do enough to make the prospect worth it.
3. Bypass pay. Yes, the company tries to get out of it and not all the people who should be getting are, but guys are getting it and it does make a difference.

If you are bitter because you were forced onto Cos08, I can sympathize, but when did that become the fault of anyone who had the choice and decided to stay on 99? If you joined on 08, well tough luck, but the matter doesn't involve you so shut it. Or, if you had a choice and changed anyway, perhaps you are bitter because you now realize you don't like the choice you made.

In any event good luck at 65...

How you came to those conclusions about me is beyond me....dude, you are way too uptight, maybe go commando for a few days, it helps

For what it's worth, I am Cos 99, and remained so for the very reasons the other guys pointed out. I am niether too young or too stupid and its my perspective of life that made it clear this would be the case. I am going to have my cake and eat it. A lot is going to happen in the next 15 years

You may insert your humble apology any time
asianeagle is offline  
Old 11th Jan 2012, 23:58
  #67 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Where You Aren't
Posts: 518
I stayed CoS99 and will have my cake and eat it, too! I'm sure that by the time I reach age 55 I will have received my bypass pay and age 55 will have been determined to be discriminatory.

Those of you reasonably younger than 55 who signed CoS08 are just more conservative than those who are older and didn't. Some of us chose to take the risk that RA55 will be abolished by the time we reach it; others chose not to do so. To each his own (cake).
Oval3Holer is offline  
Old 12th Jan 2012, 04:18
  #68 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: U.S.
Posts: 341
Same here, stayed on Cos99. I WILL retire by 55 or before. All you have to do is decide what kind of life you will be happy living, and there is an associated number which will give it to you. It's all about choices, my friends...

boxjockey is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2012, 04:35
  #69 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2003
Location: 'round here
Posts: 394
So are you expecting the AOA to do anything for you in the future if you are approaching 55 and want to stay longer but stayed on COS99?

Do you recall that survey the AOA released that said at age 30 only 20% want to go to 65, at age 40 it's 50% and at age 50 it's 90% Was wondering if you had a plan to stop aging?
stillalbatross is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2012, 06:19
  #70 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Where You Aren't
Posts: 518
The AOA doesn't do sh!t for anyone except negotiate away good things in exchange for bad. I don't expect the AOA to do anything about age 55 retirement. I'm SURE the government will do something about it. You know, political correctness is all the rage these days.
Oval3Holer is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2012, 07:22
  #71 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 67
COS 99 guys dream on.

This is China, do you really think Swire will still be a major shareholder in CX by then, rather than just a "management company". Are you really SURE the government will come to your aid.

Last edited by electricjetjock; 15th Jan 2012 at 07:25. Reason: spilling
electricjetjock is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2012, 08:26
  #72 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North Pole
Age: 89
Posts: 110
Electricjetjock has a good point. It has been said before but I will say it again. Have a realistic Plan B. Because things have been a certain way before doesn't mean it will continue that way in the future. Swire have played a delaying game with Cathay since the handover, but a new bunch will be in charge up north this year and they will want their piece of the pie. Will that mean CX changing ownership? Who knows. But it is possible and should be planned for. I know it is easy to say, but have 6mths salary saved up or that amount in liquid assets. You might just need it if god forbid Plan A doesn't work and you have to activate Plan B.
MrClaus is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2012, 13:19
  #73 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hong K ong
Posts: 233
The Point

Agree about Chinese etc..

Would like to remind my point is from 2025-40.
There is going to be a double wam! As 100-150 are going to be retiring per year & all of whom will be the life blood of co in term of experience.
(RA65 + RA55 on Cos99)

That's 5% per year for 15yrs. 10-15% of Cpt's per year for 10-15yrs.

Impossible to replace us if the stick together and don't sign some porno deal and ignore this great opportunity. We got time to plan for it and many cannot even see it coming.

Though with us sheep they can lead us into any "camp" and achieve the impossible!

So hence my plan B as we are our own worst enemies.
crewsunite is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2012, 21:46
  #74 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 106
Unless my memory fails me, the COS99 -> COS08 was a choice. Those that stayed on 08 made the choice, the Government has already come to the party WRT discrimination, they won't be giving you a second chance. You decided to keep your 55 retirement age, there is no discrimination.
Now if the company starts running out of pilots due to those retiring at 55, you can absolutely bet that you will be given another chance to extend your retirement age to 65+, but do you think it will be on your current terms? Absolutely it will be C scale but more likely by that time it will be D scale. There will be no cake and crumbs in this one.
We all made a choice that we will live with, there is no discrimination in you choosing to retire at 55.
Just my crystal ball.
Bye Bye Baby is offline  
Old 16th Jan 2012, 03:02
  #75 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cupboard
Posts: 264
Supply and demand will dictate what happens in the future, which nobody can accurately predict right now.

It could just as easily swing the other way in 10 years, with 10 times less pilots available at that time due this decade's degradation of conditions.
Iron Skillet is offline  
Old 16th Jan 2012, 05:23
  #76 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 99
CoS08 was not a choice for many. It was a case of sign or have your employment terminated (based crew).
dartman2 is offline  
Old 18th Jan 2012, 03:45
  #77 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Vulcan
Posts: 23
Aircraft numbers

Based upon quick glance, there are 120 +/- or so aircraft at present, with 32 +/- set to retire and another 97 +/- on order through 2019 (not including any VLA that could be ordered). Thus, there are +/- 65 new aircraft coming on-line in the next, say with delays, decade plus. Assuming these figures are more or less correct, I cannot see how CX can sustain growth with the number of yearly upgrades being discussed here? What is missing
Cessna414CC is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2012, 10:09
  #78 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: U.S.
Posts: 341
What is missing
A proper training dept?

boxjockey is offline  
Old 10th May 2012, 13:32
  #79 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Up in the air
Age: 53
Posts: 195
Well, sorry guys, but reading the today's newsletter I thought this thread deserves another chance
711 is offline  

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