Has your UK CAA I/R lapsed by more than 7 years?
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Has your UK CAA I/R lapsed by more than 7 years?
Mine has, which was not a problem as I have continuously maintained my Instrument Rating on an ICAO HK ATPL for the last 10 years.
That was until April 2011 when the CAA suddenly and without warning decided that ICAO I/R's didn't count anymore and that I would be required to re-sit the theoretical examinations in order to revalidate my UK I/R.
I am in the early stages of taking the CAA to task on this through the BALPA lawyers, I know that I'm not the only one affected by this sudden policy change and both myself and BALPA would like to know how many others are out there.
Please PM me or post if you are affected by this, want to share information or if by some miracle you have managed to make any progress on this issue with the lunatics at the CAA.
Cheers
That was until April 2011 when the CAA suddenly and without warning decided that ICAO I/R's didn't count anymore and that I would be required to re-sit the theoretical examinations in order to revalidate my UK I/R.
I am in the early stages of taking the CAA to task on this through the BALPA lawyers, I know that I'm not the only one affected by this sudden policy change and both myself and BALPA would like to know how many others are out there.
Please PM me or post if you are affected by this, want to share information or if by some miracle you have managed to make any progress on this issue with the lunatics at the CAA.
Cheers
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For those who are in this position but are unfamiliar with the history, the requirement to re-sit the previously passed theoretical exams if your IR has lapsed by more than 7 years has existed for at least the last 10 years.
LASORS the UK CAA publication detailing licencing requirements has stated in successive updated versions during this time that if you hold an IR on another ICAO licence it fulfills the criteria of having an IR inside 7 years thereby eliminating the requirement *to re-sit the theoretical examinations.
In April 2011 LASORS 2010 was published and without prior warning the CAA removed this condition effectively rendering many license holders unqualified overnight.
There is no other outside legislation driving this decision, JAR-FCL has not changed since 2005, EASA does not come into force until April 2012 at the earliest, this is purely an arbitrary UK CAA action.
Other JAA member states such as France and Germany accept IR's from ICAO licences so the CAA cannot claim to be merely falling into line with other countries.
Aside from the fact that as a responsible regulator the CAA are obliged to give people advance warning of major policy changes such as this, sitting theoretical examinations for a 2nd time serves no practical purpose and offends common sense.
Discrimination also becomes a factor because the CAA cannot point to any differences in standards that would legitimize their sudden refusal to grant an IR without sitting exams having continuously maintained an IR on another ICAO licence.
Neither can they reconcile the contradiction that I'm qualified to fly a HK registered aircraft in UK airspace but not a UK registered aircraft. Remember I'm objecting to re-sitting theoretical exams that had questionable vocational value as a student, not carrying out a CAA IR and skills test.
Having failed to appeal to the CAA's better *judgement I am now pursuing this matter through legal avenues.
LASORS the UK CAA publication detailing licencing requirements has stated in successive updated versions during this time that if you hold an IR on another ICAO licence it fulfills the criteria of having an IR inside 7 years thereby eliminating the requirement *to re-sit the theoretical examinations.
In April 2011 LASORS 2010 was published and without prior warning the CAA removed this condition effectively rendering many license holders unqualified overnight.
There is no other outside legislation driving this decision, JAR-FCL has not changed since 2005, EASA does not come into force until April 2012 at the earliest, this is purely an arbitrary UK CAA action.
Other JAA member states such as France and Germany accept IR's from ICAO licences so the CAA cannot claim to be merely falling into line with other countries.
Aside from the fact that as a responsible regulator the CAA are obliged to give people advance warning of major policy changes such as this, sitting theoretical examinations for a 2nd time serves no practical purpose and offends common sense.
Discrimination also becomes a factor because the CAA cannot point to any differences in standards that would legitimize their sudden refusal to grant an IR without sitting exams having continuously maintained an IR on another ICAO licence.
Neither can they reconcile the contradiction that I'm qualified to fly a HK registered aircraft in UK airspace but not a UK registered aircraft. Remember I'm objecting to re-sitting theoretical exams that had questionable vocational value as a student, not carrying out a CAA IR and skills test.
Having failed to appeal to the CAA's better *judgement I am now pursuing this matter through legal avenues.
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Unfortunately its not purely a UK CAA thing, other JAR-Fcl countries have the same 7 year requirement. I got told specifically that a 7 year lapse would invalidate the IR forever, independent of any valid ICAO IR ratings. That was back in 2006.
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Drama? Not like there is any study, stress or financial issues related to the exams. It was only 3 full days of multichoice heaven. The opportunity to prove your infinite understanding of projecting a cold fronts' path, polar sterographics and my personal favorites, doplar and loran. Pure deepest joy, not!!!! I hope you have some luck!!! As a back up plan, perhaps a quick brush up down at bristol ground school before you do battle at gatwick.
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This is plain daft! I have a valid, in date CAA ATPL that I use for occasional puddle jumper flying and have always had a Hong Kong IR but does this now mean that I'll have to do all the ATPL exams to fly big aircraft using it? Makes no sense at all.
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The Exams
For clarification.
The exams the CAA are requiring to be taken are NOT the ATPL exams. I say again...NOT the ATPL exams. They want us to take the IR(A) theory exams, of which there are 7...and are at PPL ish level of difficulty.
Pain in the posterior either way you look at it...but its in LASORS and not sure there will be any changing their (CAA) minds. Its just money grabbing before the system changes.
After April 8th, first exam slot available I believe is on the 11th. In addition after the 8th, the format changes. No longer are the IR(A) theory exams over two days, EASA have ordered that they be consolidated into 1 day of exams.
Bournemouth Ground Services are offering a distance learning package/brush up, as well as exam practice, and there are a few apple APPS available that cater for the IR(A) exams.
The exams the CAA are requiring to be taken are NOT the ATPL exams. I say again...NOT the ATPL exams. They want us to take the IR(A) theory exams, of which there are 7...and are at PPL ish level of difficulty.
Pain in the posterior either way you look at it...but its in LASORS and not sure there will be any changing their (CAA) minds. Its just money grabbing before the system changes.
After April 8th, first exam slot available I believe is on the 11th. In addition after the 8th, the format changes. No longer are the IR(A) theory exams over two days, EASA have ordered that they be consolidated into 1 day of exams.
Bournemouth Ground Services are offering a distance learning package/brush up, as well as exam practice, and there are a few apple APPS available that cater for the IR(A) exams.
JAR FCL 1-185 was introduced in 2005 and this is where it states that IRs have to be current within 7 years otherwise exams have to be taken again. But the CAA decided to only introduce the rule in LASORS 2010 - which they only got round to publishing in April 2011 - and from a document produced by an organisation which no longer exists! They also added the caveat that if the IR has expired for more than 5 years, A CAA flying examiner must observe the IR and that no other non-JAR ICAO member state or military IR would count.
One questions their motive for introducing it. You could say that the CAA are diligently bringing UK licence holders into line prior to EASA licence introduction, or some (the cynics?) might suggest that the CAA see it as a good source of revenue prior to losing licence fees to EASA. Either way it makes no sense - as other JAR member states have not been applying it, and they are saying that Hong Kong or military IRs are no good - even if the holders have been flying their RAF Tristars or Hong Kong registered 747s into Heathrow. And as for the exams, they are the basic IR ones with questions such as "What does the lattitude nut do in a DI" for which a 747 captain having to take makes about as much sense as asking a doctor to retake his biology A level because he's been working in America for the last seven years.
I would suggest that the JAR FCL 1-185 refers to any ICOA IR, and suspect a legal challenge has a great chance in succeeding.
And as for the cost. I was quoted 7 exams at GBP69 each, and a CAA flying examiner was GBP550 when I took my IR about 12 years ago - so it will be more now. A nice little earner!
One questions their motive for introducing it. You could say that the CAA are diligently bringing UK licence holders into line prior to EASA licence introduction, or some (the cynics?) might suggest that the CAA see it as a good source of revenue prior to losing licence fees to EASA. Either way it makes no sense - as other JAR member states have not been applying it, and they are saying that Hong Kong or military IRs are no good - even if the holders have been flying their RAF Tristars or Hong Kong registered 747s into Heathrow. And as for the exams, they are the basic IR ones with questions such as "What does the lattitude nut do in a DI" for which a 747 captain having to take makes about as much sense as asking a doctor to retake his biology A level because he's been working in America for the last seven years.
I would suggest that the JAR FCL 1-185 refers to any ICOA IR, and suspect a legal challenge has a great chance in succeeding.
And as for the cost. I was quoted 7 exams at GBP69 each, and a CAA flying examiner was GBP550 when I took my IR about 12 years ago - so it will be more now. A nice little earner!
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Sounds like there are a few people in the know on this thread......with this in mind, can anyone advise just what would be involved in changing a lapsed (over 10 years since last LPC/OPC/IR) UK CAA ATPL to an EASA one next year ...I know some guys who have done a 744 sim ride in the UK and have subsequently converted to a JAR ATPL in readiness for EASA, but what are the options if this cant be done until after April' 12?
Cheers
Cheers
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Sorvad, this is how I understand it but if theres an expert keeping an eye who can confirm or correct then I'd appreciate it:
At the moment you can do an SEP type rating which will give you a CAA ATPL or a JAA CPL (you need a multi crew rating now for a JAA ATPL and you'll need a valid medical for either.) You can then keep either in your back pocket and upgrade to an EASA ATPL with a 744/777/Bus rating in the future if you need it. Looks like you'll have to do the IR exams at the same time though according to this thread.
I realise that I've not answered your question about after April 2012 but an SEP rating is a slightly cheaper and possibly quicker fix than looking up a 747 examiner and simulator. I can highly recommend ontrackaviation at Wellesbourne if you live reasonably close to them but any CAA examiner at a local flying club should be able to do it.
At the moment you can do an SEP type rating which will give you a CAA ATPL or a JAA CPL (you need a multi crew rating now for a JAA ATPL and you'll need a valid medical for either.) You can then keep either in your back pocket and upgrade to an EASA ATPL with a 744/777/Bus rating in the future if you need it. Looks like you'll have to do the IR exams at the same time though according to this thread.
I realise that I've not answered your question about after April 2012 but an SEP rating is a slightly cheaper and possibly quicker fix than looking up a 747 examiner and simulator. I can highly recommend ontrackaviation at Wellesbourne if you live reasonably close to them but any CAA examiner at a local flying club should be able to do it.
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Relevant bit is Section E, sub section 1.5
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/srg_lt...ection%20E.pdf
Looks like a renewal with a CAA Training inspector for me....
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/srg_lt...ection%20E.pdf
Looks like a renewal with a CAA Training inspector for me....
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EXEZY,
l started to read it but came out in a rash. Quite a normal reaction l suspect.
lt used to be the date of the last sim check, plus five years, less one day.
l dare not go back.
What`s changed ?
l started to read it but came out in a rash. Quite a normal reaction l suspect.
lt used to be the date of the last sim check, plus five years, less one day.
l dare not go back.
What`s changed ?
