G Days
Join Date: Jul 2007
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"G" day means what?
Lately on the freighter it means guarantee to work day. I was wondering why I wasn't seeing many O days on my roster and discovered it's because G days are treated as O days when there is a "Roster disruption." I can't remember the last time I've flown an entire pattern and not had a change/"disruption." I certainly haven't done one this year. I've lost three G days in three trips and of course there is no associated G day pay. I suppose my point is if people won't volunteer to work on a G day they will be assigned to work without the benefit of extra pay. Rock on.
Last edited by letsfly75; 2nd Oct 2011 at 04:57.
Join Date: May 2002
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Playing the devils advocate here, but are you freighter only or doing an occasional F pattern?
If only freighters, truthfully, what were you expecting?
Post after post after post warned potential new hires of what to expect...
The "shiny new jet" thing wears thin after a while, doesn't it?
If only freighters, truthfully, what were you expecting?
Post after post after post warned potential new hires of what to expect...
The "shiny new jet" thing wears thin after a while, doesn't it?
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Once again, the piots' job is to work the least for the most money, making his time as valuable as possible.
The company's job is to make pilots work as much as possible for the least money, making the pilots' time as cheap as possible.
When workers are needed on G days, the company will always try to use the cheapest pilots first, and if that means extending a pattern of a pilot that will not trigger G day payout or overtime (very often because the pilot consents to waiving the 1 in 7 rule
), then of course he will be extended because our COS/RP allow it (and he consented to it, or further enabled it by answering the phone/checking messages/checking crew direct)...all because someone sometime traded something (or nothing) to let the company slip that wording into the COS/RP.
Ask around to find out how many other companies have to still pay pilots who have rostered trips taken away from them "for training" (or any reason) or who get paid 6 or 8 hours of credit for duty-free days spent in hotels, or get 100% bonus credit for each day they get home late at the end of a pattern that delays them into G (or "O") days, or get 4 (or 8) hours of credit for sitting on reserve for 8 hours (including the first 30 of the year, of course), or who get to see the master roster properly enough to ensure nobody junior to them received any of their requested trips or lines, and if so, they can drop the trip or line they got instead, force the swap, and either way they still get paid, the junior guy still gets paid, and the reserve guy then has to get paid to do the dropped trip....ETC. Guess what? Those companies don't get to spend all month creating roster changes and claiming disruptions and breaking rules, because there are expensive consequences to doing so.
The company sure knows about all these other contracts...and we have let them slip in vague wording over and over to assure we cannot get such clauses to work for us, even if we could put such clauses in there, due to the 100% availability of loopholes that are always included or attached elsewhere.
There had better not be a single instance of "in usual circumstances" or "normally" or "from time to time" or "except during a roster disruption" or any carte blanche exceptions in the RP we expect to vote upon soon....If there is, all the words before or after them mean nothing, as has been proven over and over again.
Hopefully the hundreds of 777 pilots about to join the second class freighter rostering world will be extra vigilant during the reading of the RP before they vote, as will the half of Airbus pilots who will soon enough end up on the 777 or 747 fleet, as we have all been told 1000 times that freighters rostering is the epicenter of "grey area" rule bending/intent ignoring.
The company's job is to make pilots work as much as possible for the least money, making the pilots' time as cheap as possible.
When workers are needed on G days, the company will always try to use the cheapest pilots first, and if that means extending a pattern of a pilot that will not trigger G day payout or overtime (very often because the pilot consents to waiving the 1 in 7 rule
), then of course he will be extended because our COS/RP allow it (and he consented to it, or further enabled it by answering the phone/checking messages/checking crew direct)...all because someone sometime traded something (or nothing) to let the company slip that wording into the COS/RP. Ask around to find out how many other companies have to still pay pilots who have rostered trips taken away from them "for training" (or any reason) or who get paid 6 or 8 hours of credit for duty-free days spent in hotels, or get 100% bonus credit for each day they get home late at the end of a pattern that delays them into G (or "O") days, or get 4 (or 8) hours of credit for sitting on reserve for 8 hours (including the first 30 of the year, of course), or who get to see the master roster properly enough to ensure nobody junior to them received any of their requested trips or lines, and if so, they can drop the trip or line they got instead, force the swap, and either way they still get paid, the junior guy still gets paid, and the reserve guy then has to get paid to do the dropped trip....ETC. Guess what? Those companies don't get to spend all month creating roster changes and claiming disruptions and breaking rules, because there are expensive consequences to doing so.
The company sure knows about all these other contracts...and we have let them slip in vague wording over and over to assure we cannot get such clauses to work for us, even if we could put such clauses in there, due to the 100% availability of loopholes that are always included or attached elsewhere.
There had better not be a single instance of "in usual circumstances" or "normally" or "from time to time" or "except during a roster disruption" or any carte blanche exceptions in the RP we expect to vote upon soon....If there is, all the words before or after them mean nothing, as has been proven over and over again.
Hopefully the hundreds of 777 pilots about to join the second class freighter rostering world will be extra vigilant during the reading of the RP before they vote, as will the half of Airbus pilots who will soon enough end up on the 777 or 747 fleet, as we have all been told 1000 times that freighters rostering is the epicenter of "grey area" rule bending/intent ignoring.
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Roster Disruption
If you're based in Nth America letsfly75, then they how can they justify extension of your duty on a roster disruption? Bit hard to assess without knowing your base (no need to tell), but unless there is a disruption whilst you are in ANC on the way home, how do they justify it? If they've canceled/changed the flight before you leave HK, then you should be PX'd to your home port. Being on the freighter or passenger should make no difference.
What next? Sorry, I know it's only day 1 of an 8 day pattern, but your flight on day 7 has been changed as part of a deal a G day worker made with us, so under the "roster disruption" clause, we can extend into your next 3 G days.
Don't even say that they won't try it on, if they haven't already.
What next? Sorry, I know it's only day 1 of an 8 day pattern, but your flight on day 7 has been changed as part of a deal a G day worker made with us, so under the "roster disruption" clause, we can extend into your next 3 G days.
Don't even say that they won't try it on, if they haven't already.
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I view the aspect of G day working very simply.
Assuming the maximum effort that one can exert is 100%, I feel that on the days I am rostered to work, I am obliged to perform as well as possible, so I put in 100%.
Sadly that therefore leaves 0% effort available for G days. QED!
For those who do choose to work on G days voluntarily, whilst it is a personal choice, it appears the general consensus is that in the long term it does neither the individual, nor the pilot group as a whole, any long term good.
So look in the shaving mirror after you have picked up the call from crew control and accepted the duty that may give you an out from an undesirable duty or an extra couple of days off, and tell yourself honestly that the individual now removed from said flight who has lost x hours in EFP is inconsequential and the crewing problem will get better now you have 'helped out'.
But you're ok right?
Assuming the maximum effort that one can exert is 100%, I feel that on the days I am rostered to work, I am obliged to perform as well as possible, so I put in 100%.
Sadly that therefore leaves 0% effort available for G days. QED!
For those who do choose to work on G days voluntarily, whilst it is a personal choice, it appears the general consensus is that in the long term it does neither the individual, nor the pilot group as a whole, any long term good.
So look in the shaving mirror after you have picked up the call from crew control and accepted the duty that may give you an out from an undesirable duty or an extra couple of days off, and tell yourself honestly that the individual now removed from said flight who has lost x hours in EFP is inconsequential and the crewing problem will get better now you have 'helped out'.
But you're ok right?
Guys really?
Enough already, please.
Until such time as the AOA votes not to work on G days you have no right what so ever to judge other people's choices.
I myself haven't worked a G day in 10 years and can see the merit in us all refusing to work them BUT we haven't made an official direction at all on the subject so I suggest you take a chill pill OR put up a motion in the AOA.
Enough already, please.
Until such time as the AOA votes not to work on G days you have no right what so ever to judge other people's choices.
I myself haven't worked a G day in 10 years and can see the merit in us all refusing to work them BUT we haven't made an official direction at all on the subject so I suggest you take a chill pill OR put up a motion in the AOA.
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Directing/voting/etc. no G days could be considered to be industrial action, which is why it is being reserved for actual industrial action.
In the meantime, just as we are fed up with the guys who put up their hands up to be training captains, training FO's, freighter captains, management pilots, port page volunteers, RTPC sim trial volunteers, TV commercial volunteers, etc., we are fed up with G day workers who are working against our goals as well as saving the company money by taking it from pilots' pockets.
I think that expressing this frustration and exposing the stupidity of G day volunteers is a good thing. However, we must be careful to avoid a witch hunt because not all people working on G day are really "voluntary G day workers." This is often the grey area the damage causing volunteers try to hide behind, though.
In the meantime, just as we are fed up with the guys who put up their hands up to be training captains, training FO's, freighter captains, management pilots, port page volunteers, RTPC sim trial volunteers, TV commercial volunteers, etc., we are fed up with G day workers who are working against our goals as well as saving the company money by taking it from pilots' pockets.
I think that expressing this frustration and exposing the stupidity of G day volunteers is a good thing. However, we must be careful to avoid a witch hunt because not all people working on G day are really "voluntary G day workers." This is often the grey area the damage causing volunteers try to hide behind, though.
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Hmmmmm
When I go to work I'm expected to put in 100%
When I go home I have my days off and so do 0%
Admirable intentions longtimespanners...
Personally, I try to give tonthe company as little as possible while at work, maybe 7-10%, to ensure I dont use my full allotment prior to top of drop, so as to still have a bit left for the ldg. I reckon on an average sector then, spread over the course of the month, around 32% effort is right.
And I'm knackered too after that. Need a PRA. Helps spread the OT around for the other boys. Let them soak up my 68%. Extra $$$
G days??? Fu$@ that. And those who work them. Actually, while I'm on this thread, would you g day dicks pls stop so the deserving crew can pick up the hours I throw back into the pool by way of... By way of... 5hit, there's tons of ways to dump the dooty.
And are you all so gay that you need a directive from the AOA to tell you whether or not to work on a G and screw your mates.
Pussies, do you get the AOA approval to run a checklist, shag the missus ('s sister) or take a dump??
You all hide behind a smokescreen of " well they didn't tell us.... They never said we couldn't....they should say something first then if we aren't to work on G's..... They... They.... F'n they...
Always finding excuses and passing the buck.
No wonder the situation is as it is.
Y'all must be real proud.
Hmmmph!
When I go home I have my days off and so do 0%
Admirable intentions longtimespanners...
Personally, I try to give tonthe company as little as possible while at work, maybe 7-10%, to ensure I dont use my full allotment prior to top of drop, so as to still have a bit left for the ldg. I reckon on an average sector then, spread over the course of the month, around 32% effort is right.
And I'm knackered too after that. Need a PRA. Helps spread the OT around for the other boys. Let them soak up my 68%. Extra $$$
G days??? Fu$@ that. And those who work them. Actually, while I'm on this thread, would you g day dicks pls stop so the deserving crew can pick up the hours I throw back into the pool by way of... By way of... 5hit, there's tons of ways to dump the dooty.
And are you all so gay that you need a directive from the AOA to tell you whether or not to work on a G and screw your mates.
Pussies, do you get the AOA approval to run a checklist, shag the missus ('s sister) or take a dump??
You all hide behind a smokescreen of " well they didn't tell us.... They never said we couldn't....they should say something first then if we aren't to work on G's..... They... They.... F'n they...
Always finding excuses and passing the buck.
No wonder the situation is as it is.
Y'all must be real proud.
Hmmmph!
