CX 293 no capt
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 744
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
who cares who works on g days anyway?? fill ya boots.....
If A is true, I like your style!
If B is true, then wake up & smell the coffee. If people stopped helping out, the operation would grind to a halt no question. And don't give me the crap about the AOA hasn't told us not to do it. You're supposed to be a pilot who can think for yourself, surely you can use your brain & work out that G day workers are doing more to undermine our contract at the moment than pretty much anyone else.
As an aside, don't think that your helpfulness can be used to help you if you ever have an "oops" during your CX career. The guy whose "appendage" recently appeared in the Apple Daily was a known regular G day worker. Despite all the help he had given the company over the years, how much help did he get back?
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cupboard
Posts: 264
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here's what YOU don't get:
When one works on a G day, and gets a 2.5% of 1 months' basic pay as a bonus. The only reason he is being called is because he will not trigger overtime, or at least costs the company a lot less than the next pilot on the list they would have to use.
Meanwhile, other pilots are strapped to their phones, can't travel, can't make plans, can't drink, can't commit to anything because they are on reserve. But crew control is not calling most pilots on reserve, because those pilots will trigger overtime. While a G day worker might get 2000HKD to spend all day in a plane and a night in a hotel, an R day guy could trigger 3, 5, 10 or 20 times that amount.
Crew control knows almost exactly how many pilots it will take to crew the day, from experience and statistics, with a few spares on hold, but they want to keep a whole bunch of pilots on FREE no-credit reserve, if possible, while using as many pilots on G days as possible, for just the 2.5% (knowing they can call the most junior pilots first go minimize the value of the 2.5%) while R day pilots are kept chained to the phone for free, just in case.
Virtually every time a G day pilots accepts a flight for the 2.5% bonus, it means some R day pilots is missing out on much, much more overtime than that. Then some other day, that G day pilots will have a no-credit R day, but he won't get called out, and he will get no credit or overtime for his R day, because some G day pilot took the bait and screwed the R day pilot out of a much larger payment.
If there are enough R day pilots still available that will not trigger overtime, they will be used first, then G day workers who won't trigger overtime, then R day workers who will trigger overtime, then G day workers who will trigger overtime, then anyone else who will trigger overtime, then the CP or any office pilot or guys in the sim or the DFO himself will go do the flight.
We know that numbers are tight and most R day workers are being called, as they should be, and earn whatever overtime they deserve. That's why we have R day guys.
G day worker: Screws other pilots out of overtime pay while working for very cheap pay.
R day worker: Life is on hold and unpleasant while waiting for call that will not come unless G day pilots avoid answering the phone, and will be screwed out of overtime every time a G day pilot responds to the call because G day guys are only used once all no-cost R day guys have been used.
If there were no G day workers, the company would have to hire enough pilots to roster more R day guys to cover the flights they are used to using G day workers for.
As well, they would rather make 10 no-overtime pilots go to work than pay 1 hour of overtime, causing massive roster disruptions that go on and on. They will also send a cheap G-day worker on a valuable trip (that does not benefit the G day worker) while sending the R day guy to a split duty TPE so that he earns as little credit as possible, or at best even less credit than a post-30-days/year R day credit would have triggered.
All of the above is actively managed and manipulated at much as possible to reduce overall pilot pay...but it is mostly only possible with the cooperation of G day workers.
The company's job is to minimize costs and screw pilots out of their pay.
The PILOTS' job is to work to get paid as much as possible. By sticking together and avoiding G day callout pay, we ALL get paid more over the year. The extremely miniscule amount of money this adds up to in the company's big picture would have no effect on your profit share in the years it is paid at all.
PAY ATTENTION NOW: No G day workers would mean that the exact same number of pilots would be working each day, but with no G day workers, nobody would be paid the tiny G day callout bonus. HOWEVER more pilots would be working on their R days when they expect to and are ready to work, with many more receiving far more rewarding overtime pay which means that EVERYONE gets to keep and enjoy their G days AS WELL AS get and enjoy more money and more G days.
When one works on a G day, and gets a 2.5% of 1 months' basic pay as a bonus. The only reason he is being called is because he will not trigger overtime, or at least costs the company a lot less than the next pilot on the list they would have to use.
Meanwhile, other pilots are strapped to their phones, can't travel, can't make plans, can't drink, can't commit to anything because they are on reserve. But crew control is not calling most pilots on reserve, because those pilots will trigger overtime. While a G day worker might get 2000HKD to spend all day in a plane and a night in a hotel, an R day guy could trigger 3, 5, 10 or 20 times that amount.
Crew control knows almost exactly how many pilots it will take to crew the day, from experience and statistics, with a few spares on hold, but they want to keep a whole bunch of pilots on FREE no-credit reserve, if possible, while using as many pilots on G days as possible, for just the 2.5% (knowing they can call the most junior pilots first go minimize the value of the 2.5%) while R day pilots are kept chained to the phone for free, just in case.
Virtually every time a G day pilots accepts a flight for the 2.5% bonus, it means some R day pilots is missing out on much, much more overtime than that. Then some other day, that G day pilots will have a no-credit R day, but he won't get called out, and he will get no credit or overtime for his R day, because some G day pilot took the bait and screwed the R day pilot out of a much larger payment.
If there are enough R day pilots still available that will not trigger overtime, they will be used first, then G day workers who won't trigger overtime, then R day workers who will trigger overtime, then G day workers who will trigger overtime, then anyone else who will trigger overtime, then the CP or any office pilot or guys in the sim or the DFO himself will go do the flight.
We know that numbers are tight and most R day workers are being called, as they should be, and earn whatever overtime they deserve. That's why we have R day guys.
G day worker: Screws other pilots out of overtime pay while working for very cheap pay.
R day worker: Life is on hold and unpleasant while waiting for call that will not come unless G day pilots avoid answering the phone, and will be screwed out of overtime every time a G day pilot responds to the call because G day guys are only used once all no-cost R day guys have been used.
If there were no G day workers, the company would have to hire enough pilots to roster more R day guys to cover the flights they are used to using G day workers for.
As well, they would rather make 10 no-overtime pilots go to work than pay 1 hour of overtime, causing massive roster disruptions that go on and on. They will also send a cheap G-day worker on a valuable trip (that does not benefit the G day worker) while sending the R day guy to a split duty TPE so that he earns as little credit as possible, or at best even less credit than a post-30-days/year R day credit would have triggered.
All of the above is actively managed and manipulated at much as possible to reduce overall pilot pay...but it is mostly only possible with the cooperation of G day workers.
The company's job is to minimize costs and screw pilots out of their pay.
The PILOTS' job is to work to get paid as much as possible. By sticking together and avoiding G day callout pay, we ALL get paid more over the year. The extremely miniscule amount of money this adds up to in the company's big picture would have no effect on your profit share in the years it is paid at all.
PAY ATTENTION NOW: No G day workers would mean that the exact same number of pilots would be working each day, but with no G day workers, nobody would be paid the tiny G day callout bonus. HOWEVER more pilots would be working on their R days when they expect to and are ready to work, with many more receiving far more rewarding overtime pay which means that EVERYONE gets to keep and enjoy their G days AS WELL AS get and enjoy more money and more G days.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jizz,
You are truly pathetic! If you demonstrate the same lack of SA in the cockpit that you do on this issue, I would venture to guess you might be dangerous. Regardless, you undervalue yourself when you work for 2.5% salary on a G. By my calculations, a G day is worth 12.5% (1/8) salary assuming 8 Gs. I work to live rather than live to work. That is likely the difference between us, and the fact that I refuse to screw my fellow pilots while cavalierly stating "fill ya boots!" Boots don't get filled at 2.5%! Except the company's of course.
CXorcist
You are truly pathetic! If you demonstrate the same lack of SA in the cockpit that you do on this issue, I would venture to guess you might be dangerous. Regardless, you undervalue yourself when you work for 2.5% salary on a G. By my calculations, a G day is worth 12.5% (1/8) salary assuming 8 Gs. I work to live rather than live to work. That is likely the difference between us, and the fact that I refuse to screw my fellow pilots while cavalierly stating "fill ya boots!" Boots don't get filled at 2.5%! Except the company's of course.
CXorcist
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cupboard
Posts: 264
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Easy cxorcist, he's just joking! But it was a good opportunity to put out my spiel for those who aren't joking and keep screwing each other.
Plus, I can type very, very fast.
Plus, I can type very, very fast.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cupboard
Posts: 264
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They will when they think it is worth using that tactic...or the threat of that tactic. The day 100%, or 50%, or even 25% of G day workers stop "helping out" at such a cheap rate will be the day the company will have to give something to get something back.
In the meantime, it is a permissible activity, as part of our COS, that pilots should be smart enough to realize is to the benefit of the company and detrimental the themselves, since our COS also has provisions for R days, which is where pilots needed to "help out" should come from. If there aren't enough pilots, then they can hire more so that everyone can get the G days they are entitled to. If there aren't enough pilots on "free" R days, then they will have to roster pilots for credit R days, as well as pay the hefty overtime rates rather than the silly G day callout pay.
Besides, most of us can read between the lines, as well as read the black and white print in our COS, to realize working on G days to "help out" is just screwing ourselves.
In the meantime, it is a permissible activity, as part of our COS, that pilots should be smart enough to realize is to the benefit of the company and detrimental the themselves, since our COS also has provisions for R days, which is where pilots needed to "help out" should come from. If there aren't enough pilots, then they can hire more so that everyone can get the G days they are entitled to. If there aren't enough pilots on "free" R days, then they will have to roster pilots for credit R days, as well as pay the hefty overtime rates rather than the silly G day callout pay.
Besides, most of us can read between the lines, as well as read the black and white print in our COS, to realize working on G days to "help out" is just screwing ourselves.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: HK
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you are waiting for the AOA to tell you to stop working on G days you will probably hit the new retirement age of 85 before you see that in print.
It annoys me no end that pilots wait to be told by a union which really hasn't got the power, money or drive even to fight these battles. Use your own brains its not that hard to work out. Don't work on days off and things will improve!
If you do decide to work on days off, you really don't have the right to complain about current conditions period, and don't blame it on the AOA they are not your saviour.
It annoys me no end that pilots wait to be told by a union which really hasn't got the power, money or drive even to fight these battles. Use your own brains its not that hard to work out. Don't work on days off and things will improve!
If you do decide to work on days off, you really don't have the right to complain about current conditions period, and don't blame it on the AOA they are not your saviour.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 744
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Next time you think about working on a G day,... do this little experiment.
Call up crew control, a few hours before a duty, and ask them really nicely if they will convert this duty to a G day for you.
Tell them you will happily give up $2000 salary for this favor.
The answer you get should then decide your attitude to working on G days for the company.
Call up crew control, a few hours before a duty, and ask them really nicely if they will convert this duty to a G day for you.
Tell them you will happily give up $2000 salary for this favor.
The answer you get should then decide your attitude to working on G days for the company.
Just wanted to bring it back to the top.
Guest
Posts: n/a
AOA
Why don't the AOA Cte recommend that we refuse to work G's?
Because our mismanagement will instantly stop swaps, requests, access to other pilots rosters etc etc etc ......
Use your head. It's up to every individual to figure it out.
FACT: if you work G days, your roster, my roster (and everyone else's) will be much worse in the long run. It's not rocket science .... although for some amongst us it would appear to be.
Because our mismanagement will instantly stop swaps, requests, access to other pilots rosters etc etc etc ......
Use your head. It's up to every individual to figure it out.
FACT: if you work G days, your roster, my roster (and everyone else's) will be much worse in the long run. It's not rocket science .... although for some amongst us it would appear to be.