Official...Direct Entry Left Seat
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
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Was talking to one of the office wallahs during the week. Seems management have come to accept a certain level of by-pass pay and then the math made sense to hire a number of DE captains to cover the shortfall. Savings on training courses and reduced housing and reduces the overtime bill. Recruiting now around asia for starts before the end of the year. Initially the airbus fleet.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Real World
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Of course our trainers will train them.
They all did this back in the 90's when ASL started, why should it be any different now.
You take the kings shilling...........you know the rest.
It was not right then, it's not right now, and it will not be right in the future.
Thoughts:-
What do we do about it.....
Are we united as a group .......
What is the AOA doing about it........
Without seniority what do we have?
They all did this back in the 90's when ASL started, why should it be any different now.
You take the kings shilling...........you know the rest.
It was not right then, it's not right now, and it will not be right in the future.
Thoughts:-
What do we do about it.....
Are we united as a group .......
What is the AOA doing about it........
Without seniority what do we have?
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: hong kong
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IF any of this is true , then the 777f's have to be on the list for DEC'S ? as 8 are coming 2013 onwards plus all the 300ers already booked in , they just can't get the manpower or enough training captains for the large amount of upgrades needed , so instead CX training captains will be training DEC captains , now that really stinks , they won't be no friend of mine anymore...
It stinks that CX is winning the race to the bottom, why can't it be some other airline ?
It stinks that CX is winning the race to the bottom, why can't it be some other airline ?
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
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If DECs onto the pax fleet starts happening next year, the wheels should stop turning at CX full stop. In typical spineless CX fashion, guys start calling on others (in this case trainers) to put their heads above the parapet while keeping their own well hidden. I agree that being a trainer by choice in the times of ACC, AHK, and icadets is insane; but many of these guys are unwilling to take the "paycut" both financially and in terms of their ridiculously fragile egos. So I would not count on the trainers for anything.
If the AOA cannot provide leadership to the pilot group to stop DECs, then they will truly fail the membership through their ineptitude. Newly elected AOA GC: this is your mandate - STOP DECs. If WE don't, the housing allowance will be attacked from both sides, icadets and DECs. The company will hold promotions over your head by threatening to give them to cheaper pilots if you do not accept the housing concessions. WAKE UP!!!
It is pretty simple math boys and girls. If we cannot get our collective selves to grow some spine, forget about having a career at CX. This place will well and truly have turned into a contract job like so many of the other Asian airlines employing expats.
CXorcist
If the AOA cannot provide leadership to the pilot group to stop DECs, then they will truly fail the membership through their ineptitude. Newly elected AOA GC: this is your mandate - STOP DECs. If WE don't, the housing allowance will be attacked from both sides, icadets and DECs. The company will hold promotions over your head by threatening to give them to cheaper pilots if you do not accept the housing concessions. WAKE UP!!!
It is pretty simple math boys and girls. If we cannot get our collective selves to grow some spine, forget about having a career at CX. This place will well and truly have turned into a contract job like so many of the other Asian airlines employing expats.
CXorcist
Join Date: Jul 2010
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The DPA prevented DEC's onto the B744 several years ago by requesting from IFALPA a hiring ban be put on the airline. It's a pretty simple, yet effective way of deterring pilots from joining the airline. Perhaps the AOA might want to consider this avenue as well. Along side this, the AOA (that's all union members - committee and non-committee members) must decide whether or not the AOA will continue into the future. If the AOA (yes that's all of you!) allow DEC's to be permitted to Fornicate Under Consent of King the career paths of junior F/O's then the AOA, as far as I'm concerned, may as well close their doors. Membership will inevitably drop to an unsustainable level - as it rightly should.
Last edited by Flying Phoenix; 3rd Sep 2011 at 17:03.
Don't underestimate the effect of an IFALPA hiring ban. During certain unpleasantness with the airline a bit over a decade ago, one was in place.
Of all the tactics that the Association had been using, this really got the attention of senior management, and the small-statured DFO of the day shrilly complained about it in many of his 'updates'.
Of all the tactics that the Association had been using, this really got the attention of senior management, and the small-statured DFO of the day shrilly complained about it in many of his 'updates'.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Asia
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They do this sort of thing every single time......it must be in the Swire Playbook
Join Date: May 2003
Location: 'round here
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DEC are a win all round. Guys get straight into the left seat without jumping through all the hoops. The company can employ them on conditions well below what they a pay B scale skipper as a package. And in the right seat they will have highly experienced guys who now do 18-20 yrs to command, who know the CX system and will be keeping an eye on them. A cockup in the cockpit and everyone gets a bollocking (translate as cat B or D for the F/O involved).
Lots of high time 777 skippers floating about, so I'm surprised the company hasn't started with them earlier than now. More fun to fly for than contract work for a Korean or a Chinese carrier.
Lots of high time 777 skippers floating about, so I'm surprised the company hasn't started with them earlier than now. More fun to fly for than contract work for a Korean or a Chinese carrier.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
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Except that you now pay BPP regardless of Cos99/08. So you get a cheap skipper, but an FO that makes as much as B scale CN1 on full package. Only advantage to DEC is recruitment and elimination of FO and SO courses to replace upgrading FO and SO. That said, this would definitely start/continue a very dark period in management / pilot relations, not to mention a hiring ban.
Join Date: Nov 2007
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BPP regardless of CoS99/08? What are you smoking? BPP is only paid for captains over age 55. If these supposed DECs (this thread is a wind-up anyway, but I'm bored so I thought I'd dispute your BS post) are younger than 55, no BPP will be paid to anyone. If they're 55 or older, yes, BPP would be paid to FOs, but ONLY CoS99 FOs. Duh. You must be brain-dead.
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Oval,
What are you smoking? Or are you brain dead? Check your CoS under promotion on page 3. Seems they might have to pay for going around that little tidbit... Might want to think before you post, especially since course deferral compensation has been paid for as long as I can remember.
CXorcist
What are you smoking? Or are you brain dead? Check your CoS under promotion on page 3. Seems they might have to pay for going around that little tidbit... Might want to think before you post, especially since course deferral compensation has been paid for as long as I can remember.
CXorcist
Last edited by cxorcist; 7th Sep 2011 at 06:18.
Join Date: Jul 2000
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Since when is the COS worth the paper it's written on?
Picture this..........
CX bring in DECs, AOA goes to court and wins CX appeals and wins no BPP.
Pilots bitch and moan take no industrial action and return to the status quo.
Management where are you? This is ripe for adding to your bonus
Picture this..........
CX bring in DECs, AOA goes to court and wins CX appeals and wins no BPP.
Pilots bitch and moan take no industrial action and return to the status quo.
Management where are you? This is ripe for adding to your bonus
Join Date: May 2003
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They are hiring DEC due training constraints and the large number of aircraft turning up. This is completely different from BPP. No way they will pay a cent or need to. The guy didn't extend over 55 he started employment with the company as a DEC when he was over 55. Easy.
Hiring DEC and paying BPP, you guys crack me up. Did you hear the one about the hooker with dysentery........
Hiring DEC and paying BPP, you guys crack me up. Did you hear the one about the hooker with dysentery........