Living in Hong Kong

[broadband circuit]

Housing Allowance

Been here 3 years. Love it. Like everywhere else, it's what you make of it.

If you have been here 3 years ETOPS240, then unless you are a HK local who went through the cadet scheme, you are an expat on a full expat contract (including housing allowance).

Imagine trying to make it "what you make of it" without the expat contract.

(Note: you might not have kids now, but you might one day, and the local education allowance only covers HK schools - for iCadets on local terms, the allowance will not be paid to cover boarding schools back in your home country)

Yep, it's what you make of it.....

[cathaychap]

HK is a terrific place - but as folk here have noted, you have to give up plenty of space compared to what you might be used to. My points:

- a night out can be pricey, but no way in the world can it be compared with London

- if you are prepared to eat as a local does then you're fine; unfort cooking up a few of your western faves (or worse yet, eating out) will certainly set you back

- school fees and competition for places at the non international schools (but still fee paying) are truly crazy. This for me is craziest thing about the place.

- you pay bugger all tax relatively speaking so some of these things could be considered offset somewhat, but honestly, if you're earning 60k a month and single you will be laughing!!!

The biggest thing for me though is how cosmopolitan it is. I have a chinese wife and friends from all over the place. You won't find that in many places.

I wish I could afford golf club membership here and more green space, but I can't s thats that.

A

[TryHarder]

Cadet pilot

I'm looking at moving from the UK to join Cathay. I'd be earning a total of 48,770HKD before tax each month, and I don't mind living out of town. Plus I'd be getting about 880,000HKD cash at the end of the first year as a refund on training I don't need, which I could spread over the 4(ish) years to FO to supplement income.

Does anyone think that quality of life would be poor on such wages? Opinions on this forum seem to be split into:

a) Hellfire and brimstone await you.
b) It's great if you don't mind a smallish flat for a few years.

Hyperbole aside, is morale in the Cathay SO/FO community good? Because that is the best indicator of all.

Honest thoughts (not insults) appreciated.

TH

[Flying Phoenix]

Although I don't work for Cathay, I did work for another Hong Kong carrier and under much better contract terms that are on offer. Given: A) the terms and conditions you are being hired under and B) the cost of living in Hong Kong, I can't see how moving to Cathay/Hong Kong can be viewed as anything but a short-term adventure. If you are young and single sure you can make it work; but the moment you decided to settle down and start a family (if that is something you wish to do at some point), unless things dramatically change with both Cathay/Hong Kong you will be looking to move on. You have to ask yourself this, "Where do I see myself in 5, 10 and more years?"

[Iron Skillet]

Yes, as a single guy with that salary, you can hang out here, but don't expect to have much left over to attract any women, so don't worry about ending up married with kids.

The independent, attractive, intelligent and interesting professional women will be after men who make more than they do, and their package is already much more than you would get here for a very long time with the offer you are considering.

The very poor, young, attractive, interesting foreign domestic helpers/waitresses/etc. you will get attention from, albeit temporarily, will trade up to any of the 99% of foreign men who earn many times more than you would, the instant they get the chance to switch their fickle loyalty to the better provider.

For the few available women somewhere in the middle, I believe they too will quickly tire of your mediocre means and seek a man with a better deal to offer, which, unfortunately for you, would be most of them.

If you don't know how Love vs. Money works in Asia, come take a look to see how fast you can fall in love with a wonderful, pretty, sweet, incredible, young, great girl, as long as you pay for everything. Then see how fast she falls out of love with you the instant you tell her that you will not be paying for everything anymore, nor will you be making monthly payments to her. (The better the woman, the more men she's already got sucked into giving her money every month and the higher the rate.)

All that to say, don't expect any issues with getting married/having kids....unless you fail to use rubber hats when you're with the ladies, or your self-esteem and intelligence are so low that you think young, pretty, slender, sweet, interesting, sexy girls really actually think your great and don't care about how much money you can provide. Then again, this kind of applies everywhere, but it's just a lot more expensive here.

Good luck!

[ASH1111]

...all drama aside, the cadets coming through now (the few that accept what is on offer), will be very short lived at Cathay as the shine wears off, and all that stares back at you is a wall in your 600 sq ft flat in Tung Chung. With the pilot market opening up due to retirements worldwide, it is not conceivable why an educated individual would come to Cathay, to live a lesser lifestyle than they currently enjoy, only to accumulate experience generally useless outside of Cathay.

Not trying to be a downer, if it was the place to be, I would say that. Up to a few years ago, it was. (and could be again, if they would stop this cadet C-scale package,and pay experienced guys what they are worth to come aboard.)

Good luck with your "decision".

[boxjockey]

Unfortunately, while most of these posts sound terribly biased, they are indeed true. It's a case of the haves and have-nots. If you are on the old expat terms (I am), then this can be a very comfortable place to live, minus pollution, crowding, etc. If you don't have this offer, then I can imagine you would only go one way financially; backwards.

box

[broadband circuit]

Short Term View

I am amazed by the short term outlook of the wannabees on this & other threads. Here's a classic:

I'd be getting about 880,000HKD cash at the end of the first year as a refund on training I don't need, which I could spread over the 4(ish) years to FO to supplement income.

OK, I know that number sounds big, but what about cost of living in HK? I assume by the fact that you will get that much, you are not an ab-initio with no experience, and would have at least met the criteria for DESO before they scuttled the scheme. So, let's say that you use that for housing. Assuming the current housing figure doesn't change, (SOs get 50% of the full rate for 2 years, then full rate thereafter), a pilot on the current non-local package gets that many $ in housing allowance by about the 27th month of employment, thereafter he continues to receive the housing allowance for the rest of his career. You get nothing more after that.

There is lot of information on other threads about the tax implication of the forgivable loan - and it's all bad for the recipient of the cash!

This is the reality of what everybody is trying to say - your cash-up-front deal puts the company in front, and of course you behind, by the 27 month point. How long do you have to remain employed by Cathay for them to totally "forgive" the "loan"?? If they require you to do more than 27 months, then you are being taken for a ride.

[brisdude]

My Guide,

Take it or leave it I was a Aussie raised CX kid and with a Aussie woman who found here own way there so here goes. Just my two cents.

Living on the Island:

My inclination would by Kennedy Town (particularly for buying property).
-Trams, Taxis, Buses to work.

Wan Chai/Admiralty regions
- Fun for a few weeks, you WILL piss money against the wall.

Stanley/Repulse.
-Don't bother, we can't afford it and if you can - there is better.

CX planet;

Disco
- "Hudson" bay (Discovery as it is known by locals). It is very family friendly, if you are a young'n, make sure you are on the 0330 ferry or else you are going to wait till the sun comes up, great place though, can't own a car but there are buses direct to CX city.

NTs (my weapon of choice)

Sai Kung, Clear Water Bay.
- Ah, Where I grew up, SK and surrounds is a great place with nice weather and reasonable rent, CWB is surrounded for 6 months of the year is fogged in (what a childhood) and services are very "localised (use us or else......)". There are nice schools but you must own a car if you are there, do not buy one locally!

YL, TC - there is better.

If you happen to go to Tung Chung, I can recommend beers at the Novotel. Don't bother with Mui Wo - it smells of broken dreams.

All the best, take it or leave it just my pathetic 2 cents.
BD

[TryHarder]

Ok everyone - thanks for your input. The picture seems pretty clear, and since I do have some experience, I don't think I'll be touching this job unless pay/conditions offered improve dramatically. I may still go through the process for practice though.

BC: You shouldn't be 'amazed' by our outlook - these are large sums of money in the UK, and the purpose of these forums is to let those of you who actually know about living costs in HK to share with those who don't. I appreciate the input, and I'll take the advice offered, but as a 2000+ hour military pilot, I'm not keen on the term 'wannabe'!
Many thanks for all your inputs.

TH

[SloppyJoe]

So you woul be on the advanced entry cadet scheme but below what was required for DESO with expat benefits. The problem is that if they did bring back the full package you would not have the required experience to be considered.

[TryHarder]

Worth knowing. Thanks.

[hongkongfooey]

Working poor Gnads, are you serious ? Reality check isle 5 .
On an Aussie LCC skippers wage of around 10-11k net a month, and rents in nicer areas than Sunbury around 2-2.5k a month, if they are miserable I am guessing it's not financially related?
Some people are never happy

[cxorcist]

Sloppy,

If TH is a 2000 hour fighter guy (as opposed to transport), I would say he is more than qualified for a DESO spot, perhaps even a DEFO position. Not all time is the same. A tactical pilot will make more decisions in an hour than we do on an ULH.

TH,

You should go to BA which will be hiring lots of pilots.

CXorcist

[broadband circuit]

At Last

No probs TryHarder, I understand your lack of keenness on the title wannabees, but it imply means that you are looking for a job here, regardless of hours.

You hit the nail on the head that these look like large sums of money to potential new joiners - that's the illusion the managers are trying to create. The truth is that with HK cost of living, it's not much. Remember, that big wad of cash is the same as 27 months of housing allowance. How long was it that you have to repay them until it is really 100% yours??

And the HKPA is a set figure, not market indexed like the full housing package. Inflation is really starting to kick in, and anyone who's been here a while knows how quickly, and how high, the property market can zoom to unbelievable levels.

Disregard the comment about being below the requirements of the DESO package, there are a lot of guys currently here with similar background who joined as DESOs. The irony is that with your background and your ability to do some research and make a valued judgment based one the information available, you'd probably be an excellent member of the team. Just don't devalue yourself by having to go backwards financially to do it.