useless callouts
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Up in the air
Age: 58
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Useless callouts
1.) Transition speech ( keep a simple "transition" and a "check", but,for the love of Jesus Christ, let's bin the rest)
2.) 5000 to go
Why??????
3.) Nav Aid blabla identified
What if you do not get an identification? You divert??
3 GPS, 3 IRS, come on...
TBC
2.) 5000 to go
Why??????
3.) Nav Aid blabla identified
What if you do not get an identification? You divert??
3 GPS, 3 IRS, come on...
TBC
Last edited by 711; 8th Jun 2011 at 07:48.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Age: 47
Posts: 1,007
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One thing I have never understood is when you hand over after someone goes to the loo, or comes back, or gets up to stretch their legs, or even during the handover between rests there are quite a few guys who read the FMA, "Mach, Alt Cruise, Nav". Why not also include AP1, auto thrust, TCAS below, no smoking ON, anti ice ON/OFF, table stowed, map light off, dome light ON, cockpit door locked, chart secured, shoes tight, pen in pocket, dinner heating up, landing light off, sun visor in position, oxygen mask stowed, bleeds on, engines running, wings working, prims on, secs on, fire buttons in, sidestick there, fms flight plan, cpdlc logged on, temperature ok, bulk temp ok.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Anywhere but home
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
5000' calls are history - standing by for the amendment 
'Transition'?....only really applicable at 'Transition' on the the way up and not really specified on the way down and therefore open to the old "opinion' basket and interpretation of the written word....my preference, set QNHXXXX once cleared to an altitude, most 'sensible' aviators (Canuck Checkers and other members of www.anallyretentive. com...this domain is for sale and standing by for subscribers BTW, excluded) seem to understand what I am referring to
We may have hit the ground bit at least we expired saying all the right words and wearing our hats....gotta love the MO in CX
Now officially one of the worlds '5 STAR' airlines, so we must be better than the rest....right
'Transition'?....only really applicable at 'Transition' on the the way up and not really specified on the way down and therefore open to the old "opinion' basket and interpretation of the written word....my preference, set QNHXXXX once cleared to an altitude, most 'sensible' aviators (Canuck Checkers and other members of www.anallyretentive. com...this domain is for sale and standing by for subscribers BTW, excluded) seem to understand what I am referring to
We may have hit the ground bit at least we expired saying all the right words and wearing our hats....gotta love the MO in CX
Now officially one of the worlds '5 STAR' airlines, so we must be better than the rest....right
Last edited by Kontract Killer; 7th Jun 2011 at 00:18.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: MCO (occasionally)
Posts: 387
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A great English teacher said the best communicators use the fewest words...
The two things I hate most are crazy flight attendants and long winded briefings.
Cheers!
FR
The two things I hate most are crazy flight attendants and long winded briefings.
Cheers!
FR
After promising beginnings when even management considered that the old CX briefings were ridiculously long-winded, the 'CTWO' briefs have become 'CTWO + threats + strategies to mitigate the threats + landing distance assessment'.
The briefings are becoming 'threats' in themselves; long-winded and distracting. For a start it should be just 'standard brief' for HKG arrivals and departures in reasonable weather and normal operations.
And don't get me started on the ridiculous callouts. I remember a post where some bright spark actually counted the number of times he said 'check' in a TPE-HKG flight. I think it was over a hundred.
Other hates:
'heads down'
'park brake off'
e.g. 'East Bumf_ck VOR identified' (having been autotuned in an RNAV environment)
'above MSA' on the climb (not even CX requires this)
'your radios'
threats made up for the sake of it such as 'inbound traffic'
And Profit, before you tell me to 'leave and start my own airline', if just one of our pilots, or dare I say a manager, takes what I have to say on board, my work here is done. You can always quit PPrUNE and start your own bulletin board.
The briefings are becoming 'threats' in themselves; long-winded and distracting. For a start it should be just 'standard brief' for HKG arrivals and departures in reasonable weather and normal operations.
And don't get me started on the ridiculous callouts. I remember a post where some bright spark actually counted the number of times he said 'check' in a TPE-HKG flight. I think it was over a hundred.
Other hates:
'heads down'
'park brake off'
e.g. 'East Bumf_ck VOR identified' (having been autotuned in an RNAV environment)
'above MSA' on the climb (not even CX requires this)
'your radios'
threats made up for the sake of it such as 'inbound traffic'
And Profit, before you tell me to 'leave and start my own airline', if just one of our pilots, or dare I say a manager, takes what I have to say on board, my work here is done. You can always quit PPrUNE and start your own bulletin board.
Last edited by Captain Dart; 7th Jun 2011 at 03:52.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 322
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
to add to the useless threat comments in the CTWO briefs..
...haven't flown in two weeks..
...I am fairly tired.....
and by far the most useless call on the Airbus....the CAT 1 call after AP disconnect.
...haven't flown in two weeks..
...I am fairly tired.....
and by far the most useless call on the Airbus....the CAT 1 call after AP disconnect.
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: No where
Posts: 898
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
...I think the LOSA (or is it LHOSA) audits demonstrate that overall CX has found just about the best mix of SOP's and professional application of same. I would rather it the 'CX way' than my last major airline, where upon reaching the transition alt the PF invariably said '992 for me and you'.... nuff said.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Asia
Posts: 248
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
5000 feet calls
The 5000 feet calls were standard when the Voice recorder was on a 30 minute loop tape and the flight recorder was an independent "box" ( usually a silver tape +/- 200 hours if my memory serves me right )
The 5000' calls gave investigators a point to line the flight and voice recorder up for any investigation after an incident / accident.
Alt. setting, also to do with old generation vibrators in the capsules blah blah blah....
Bottom line, "that's how we did it in the Tri Star and B707 is correct".
The 5000' calls gave investigators a point to line the flight and voice recorder up for any investigation after an incident / accident.
Alt. setting, also to do with old generation vibrators in the capsules blah blah blah....
Bottom line, "that's how we did it in the Tri Star and B707 is correct".
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Asia
Posts: 248
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TRans. Calls
There is enough monitoring and ECAM / EICAS warnings if you get it wrong. Normally the radio monitoring and missed radio calls will be a bigger thread at this point.
e.g T.D. arriving and departing traffic.
e.g T.D. arriving and departing traffic.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Where You Aren't
Posts: 506
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What sort of dingbat doesn't understand the reasons behind clearly stating who is in control in any circumstances.......?
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: far west
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When I joined CX I felt I lost any "sense of airmanship" I had for many years with nonsense "emphasis" on "wording". During a line check once a TC thought my situational awareness was lacking because on 2 consecutive sectors I didn't say;" TD identified". The WX was CAVOK and unusually sunny in HK.
I'll leave at that...........
I'll leave at that...........
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: lalaland
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re-Inventing the Wheel (or Aviation)
Without going into the detail of each and every call there there is one overriding reason for calls - it is communication between the crew and certainly aids monitoring and awareness.
Yes modern flight decks are automated - there is, therefore, an even greater danger that crews lapse into a state of detachment from reality. The Airbus Fleet used to brief from the MCDU and FMA - this was the correct way for such an automated aircraft as that is what the aircraft will actually fly. In the interest of 'commonality' we now have generic type briefs which are, as in all compromises, not ideal.
Those that have been around CX for some time realise why we do things the way we do imperfect though it may be. Those who haven't should adopt the engage brain before finger concept and then write a paper on why things should be different and how they should be changed.
So that we can really open the floodgates of vitriol - yes I am ex-military, ex fighters ex B747 and now Airbus.
Have a nice day.
Yes modern flight decks are automated - there is, therefore, an even greater danger that crews lapse into a state of detachment from reality. The Airbus Fleet used to brief from the MCDU and FMA - this was the correct way for such an automated aircraft as that is what the aircraft will actually fly. In the interest of 'commonality' we now have generic type briefs which are, as in all compromises, not ideal.
Those that have been around CX for some time realise why we do things the way we do imperfect though it may be. Those who haven't should adopt the engage brain before finger concept and then write a paper on why things should be different and how they should be changed.
So that we can really open the floodgates of vitriol - yes I am ex-military, ex fighters ex B747 and now Airbus.
Have a nice day.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Helping out on the 3rd floor
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What the h*ll is wrong with all of you? Who do you all think you are? To dare challenge the infinite wisdom of CATHAY PACIFIC??!
CATHAY PACIFIC invented flying.
Both Boeing and Airbus approached CATHAY PACIFIC on how to build the world's first airliners, and every subsequent one after that.
You better all learn your place and get in line.
The beatings will continue until moral improves!!
CATHAY PACIFIC invented flying.
Both Boeing and Airbus approached CATHAY PACIFIC on how to build the world's first airliners, and every subsequent one after that.
You better all learn your place and get in line.
The beatings will continue until moral improves!!
With only Wilbur, Orville and a couple of blokes who remember the 707 above me on the seniority list, I feel comfortable in suggesting that single pilot IFR is best conducted in total silence.
Let's just do away with calls, checklists and all other interaction at the sharp end and commit it all to Tweets. Them's that have the most Twots and Tweets win. Sectors are to be given to the lad/lass who has the most Tweets prior to launch. Maybe Toss can add that to the iToss app.
Comms are so bad on flight decks without gingerbeers that I just listen to Barry Manilow and do the sudoku
Let's just do away with calls, checklists and all other interaction at the sharp end and commit it all to Tweets. Them's that have the most Twots and Tweets win. Sectors are to be given to the lad/lass who has the most Tweets prior to launch. Maybe Toss can add that to the iToss app.
Comms are so bad on flight decks without gingerbeers that I just listen to Barry Manilow and do the sudoku
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Krug departure, Merlot transition
Posts: 658
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Most of you are Airbus guys, arenīt you? Then the problem is coming from France.
)Capt Boers, I'm honestly curious, do you not think we might be a little too verbose in CX? Obviously many call-outs are absolutely necessary and fully in line with industry best practice; but do you not feel in CX we might -currently- take it just a little too far (the 5000' call springs to mind)?
MD