Applying to Air China?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: China
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Applying to Air China?
Are you considering Air China? - beware there is a vase difference between what the contract company (and contract for that matter) state, and what Air China roster.
Find out from someone you know there, before you leave!.
Find out from someone you know there, before you leave!.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Looks pretty clear to me. Don't believe Parc/ Rishworth etc when they talk of Syd/ Lhr/ Yvr bases. The guys get Beijing based with occasional short trips home. Shame really, it used to be a good job.
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Age: 61
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Outtahere, oicur12.again;
You both are correct. Right now, there is not contract with any Chinese carrier that offers better time at home than Air China. Vancouver, Melbourne, Sydney are clear winners due to sector length. Even with simulator and 4 trips you will get 14 days off plus 3 (due to the early arrival times at ones home base). BUT. Will this last forever? Probably not. Will Air China force domestic flying down our throat? They will try. Are some pilots exempt? Yes, the Aussies for one, and anyone with a clause stating "No domestic or regional flying." My personal opinion is that the domestic flying issue will die once Air China realizes they are losing huge productivity from their foreign pilot group just so they can make some local Captains happy.
With all this said, Air China will make basing promises that they simply cannot meet. London, Frankfurt and Sydney are over-subscribed but Air China will still offer these bases to perspective employees. With the ever declining U.S dollar this job is not looking as near attractive as it did 24 months ago. Oh, and good luck passing the Chinese ATPL exam, medical and simulator assessments. By all means, come and take a look, but do not resign from your current job until you've jumped through the very last hoop.
You both are correct. Right now, there is not contract with any Chinese carrier that offers better time at home than Air China. Vancouver, Melbourne, Sydney are clear winners due to sector length. Even with simulator and 4 trips you will get 14 days off plus 3 (due to the early arrival times at ones home base). BUT. Will this last forever? Probably not. Will Air China force domestic flying down our throat? They will try. Are some pilots exempt? Yes, the Aussies for one, and anyone with a clause stating "No domestic or regional flying." My personal opinion is that the domestic flying issue will die once Air China realizes they are losing huge productivity from their foreign pilot group just so they can make some local Captains happy.
With all this said, Air China will make basing promises that they simply cannot meet. London, Frankfurt and Sydney are over-subscribed but Air China will still offer these bases to perspective employees. With the ever declining U.S dollar this job is not looking as near attractive as it did 24 months ago. Oh, and good luck passing the Chinese ATPL exam, medical and simulator assessments. By all means, come and take a look, but do not resign from your current job until you've jumped through the very last hoop.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: China
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are fair points in each response..
Yes of course there are basings, but since there is no seniority on base as they continue to accept new pilots the international flying dilutes away from your base. You cannot operate to and from a LHR or FRA base any longer.
Do the original pilots on the base receive preference, no - so now they operate mainly W patterns to FCO or MAD.
What happens when the base is too full for even that?.
Whilst YVR, MEL and SYD don't have a problem at the moment, they could soon be in the same position as LHR and FRA with the addition of more pilots.
I'm not sure that Domestic will be seen as inefficient by CA - inefficient for the Foreign Capt's days off isn't really their concern.
There is no talk of a reduction of international flying, just the addition of Domestic.
Domestic and Regional flights will be operated by a Foreign Capt an F/O and a Co-Pilot (aka Radio Operator). Until now, an F/O many much like a CX cadet SO wasn't allowed to operate below FL100 on International Flights - instead only the Foreign Capt and Chinese Capt were in the front seats.
No instruction yet whether they can be PF.
Regional (Korea, Taiwan) are still international though no, only the tip of where logic is omitted in their decision making.
For the fairness of those considering joining.. this thread is simply to highlight the reality verses what you might be told during the selection process. It's not the worst job despite the post, but be sure to understand the conditions you and your base will expect.
But it will all change next roster..
Yes of course there are basings, but since there is no seniority on base as they continue to accept new pilots the international flying dilutes away from your base. You cannot operate to and from a LHR or FRA base any longer.
Do the original pilots on the base receive preference, no - so now they operate mainly W patterns to FCO or MAD.
What happens when the base is too full for even that?.
Whilst YVR, MEL and SYD don't have a problem at the moment, they could soon be in the same position as LHR and FRA with the addition of more pilots.
I'm not sure that Domestic will be seen as inefficient by CA - inefficient for the Foreign Capt's days off isn't really their concern.
There is no talk of a reduction of international flying, just the addition of Domestic.
Domestic and Regional flights will be operated by a Foreign Capt an F/O and a Co-Pilot (aka Radio Operator). Until now, an F/O many much like a CX cadet SO wasn't allowed to operate below FL100 on International Flights - instead only the Foreign Capt and Chinese Capt were in the front seats.
No instruction yet whether they can be PF.
Regional (Korea, Taiwan) are still international though no, only the tip of where logic is omitted in their decision making.
For the fairness of those considering joining.. this thread is simply to highlight the reality verses what you might be told during the selection process. It's not the worst job despite the post, but be sure to understand the conditions you and your base will expect.
But it will all change next roster..
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Age: 61
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In a nutshell....... you can't. You have to go through one of three brokers.PARC Aviation
Brookfield Aviation
Topflight
There may be more now, but I can't tell you who they are.
Brookfield Aviation
Topflight
There may be more now, but I can't tell you who they are.
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Age: 61
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Actually, the number of domestic sectors may not be 2, but slightly lower. However, SOC (the rostering department) first salvo was to show most guys operating 4 long haul + 1 domestic flight = 95 hours. That won't fly (pardon the pun) for any one. Look like time to introduce the concept of CC to the company
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: China
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A number of pilots roster this month is to operate flight for 8 consecutive days (since the inclusion of Domestic flights).
Rest requirements, ???.
Legal,according to Air China yes.
Rest requirements, ???.
Legal,according to Air China yes.
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Age: 61
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Air China management is about to find out how their foreign pilots deal with a company that blatantly ignores FTL's and legal rest requirements. 
Last edited by Flying Phoenix; 8th May 2011 at 22:52. Reason: incorrect spelling
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: China
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Chinese co-pilots have been saying this for months now... Air China denied it would happen.. now the facts.
PARC advises LHR base will close 1st Jan 2012 (replaced by 777) yet still no word from Air China directly to pilots.
FRA base is in jeopardy long term too to the 777.
PARC advises LHR base will close 1st Jan 2012 (replaced by 777) yet still no word from Air China directly to pilots.
FRA base is in jeopardy long term too to the 777.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Earth
Age: 49
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anyone who has dealt with the Chinese know they will never address an issue directly, and prefer to use a middle man, preferably a gweilo, to do the dirty work.
Will the FRA base become a commuting base, until the 2 year contracts are up, then PARC will simply not renew or offer other bases?
Will AC become like Korean, a 2 week on 10 days off rotation? Surely PARc can't just cancel contracts will nilly?
I will never choose to work for an Asian carrier again, I just find the whole culture intolerable, unreasonable, and not worth the 13k.
Will the FRA base become a commuting base, until the 2 year contracts are up, then PARC will simply not renew or offer other bases?
Will AC become like Korean, a 2 week on 10 days off rotation? Surely PARc can't just cancel contracts will nilly?
I will never choose to work for an Asian carrier again, I just find the whole culture intolerable, unreasonable, and not worth the 13k.
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Age: 61
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Trefly, the sad truth is Parc, or Air China can (and probably will at some point) cancel the contract when they no longer see a need to continue with the current arrangement. I've said this before: do not leave a real job for one in China. The money isn't there anymore and you just can't bank on the promise of a decent roster or permanent base any longer. What I've experienced in Hong Kong is now happening in China - we've lost that lovin' feeling. 
