Making friends and influencing Cabin Crew
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Nobody knows the full truth except the persons in question, so I'm not here to judge the rumour itself.
What has been observed throughout the years though, from various pilots and cabin crew, both local and expats, is that the Captain in question does not consider himself a "local", he refuses to speak Chinese (considered very rude and aloof in Chinese culture), and I would dare go as far as saying he's not proud (to put it mildly) of the fact that he has a Chinese face and surname.
For those of you who choose to believe these rumours, please don't paint the locals with the same brush as you would this Captain.
What has been observed throughout the years though, from various pilots and cabin crew, both local and expats, is that the Captain in question does not consider himself a "local", he refuses to speak Chinese (considered very rude and aloof in Chinese culture), and I would dare go as far as saying he's not proud (to put it mildly) of the fact that he has a Chinese face and surname.
For those of you who choose to believe these rumours, please don't paint the locals with the same brush as you would this Captain.
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Nobody knows the full truth except the persons in question, so I'm not here to judge the rumour itself.
What has been observed throughout the years though, from various pilots and cabin crew, both local and expats, is that the Captain in question does not consider himself a "local", he refuses to speak Chinese (considered very rude and aloof in Chinese culture), and I would dare go as far as saying he's not proud (to put it mildly) of the fact that he has a Chinese face and surname.
For those of you who choose to believe these rumours, please don't paint the locals with the same brush as you would this Captain.
What has been observed throughout the years though, from various pilots and cabin crew, both local and expats, is that the Captain in question does not consider himself a "local", he refuses to speak Chinese (considered very rude and aloof in Chinese culture), and I would dare go as far as saying he's not proud (to put it mildly) of the fact that he has a Chinese face and surname.
For those of you who choose to believe these rumours, please don't paint the locals with the same brush as you would this Captain.
From your post it's obvious you're way worse than this rumor. Let me guess, you are either the FO who ratted out this guy, or some bitter local who has been Cat D'd.
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Just because someone looks chinese it doesn't mean that they can speak it! Surely people know that many of the locally employed pilots who look chinese grew up overseas and can't speak a word of it? If people don't realise that, I don't think they are smart enough to deserve a job here.
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Any local who knows this Captain knows he has this reputation.
Let's get this out of the way. He speaks Chinese. Fact. When he overheard some CC talk behind his back in Chinese, after the flight those CC got an earful (in English of course..)
This culture thing, as expats you won't feel it, everybody speaks English, all is well. But within a Chinese group (off-duty of course) if you refuse to speak Chinese then unavoidably you will get a reputation. This rumour is happening in a predominantly "chinese-rich" CC environment, so I feel people need to understand the background, why it is believed this Captain is capable of pulling off what is rumoured - a betrayal of a group of people. noandthen you think this is way worse than the rumour? well so be it, but unlike the rumour itself I know this is the truth.
I'm sorry but exactly how am I giving the locals a bad rep? I'm merely pointing out a fact, a local culture nuance. I don't know how you would feel if an English person refuses to speak English in England to you, but in the oriental culture, anyone who looks like a certain ethnicity but pretends he has nothing to do with it tends to get the thumbs down. If you don't like it, too bad. You're working in an Asian airline, living in an Asian culture, get over it, you can't impose western values on Asian cultures all the time.
It has been pointed out in previous posts that he's a "local", next thing you know everyone assumes all local captains rat out on fellow crew members. I do not want people to think that.
Let's get this out of the way. He speaks Chinese. Fact. When he overheard some CC talk behind his back in Chinese, after the flight those CC got an earful (in English of course..)
This culture thing, as expats you won't feel it, everybody speaks English, all is well. But within a Chinese group (off-duty of course) if you refuse to speak Chinese then unavoidably you will get a reputation. This rumour is happening in a predominantly "chinese-rich" CC environment, so I feel people need to understand the background, why it is believed this Captain is capable of pulling off what is rumoured - a betrayal of a group of people. noandthen you think this is way worse than the rumour? well so be it, but unlike the rumour itself I know this is the truth.
I'm sorry but exactly how am I giving the locals a bad rep? I'm merely pointing out a fact, a local culture nuance. I don't know how you would feel if an English person refuses to speak English in England to you, but in the oriental culture, anyone who looks like a certain ethnicity but pretends he has nothing to do with it tends to get the thumbs down. If you don't like it, too bad. You're working in an Asian airline, living in an Asian culture, get over it, you can't impose western values on Asian cultures all the time.
It has been pointed out in previous posts that he's a "local", next thing you know everyone assumes all local captains rat out on fellow crew members. I do not want people to think that.
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He is on a local contract....that does not make him a local. If he understands Chinese it does not mean he can speak it himself, or to any degree of decent ability. I know plenty of chinese who grew up overseas who can understand chinese but it is pretty ugly when they speak it and they know this, so rather than embarass themselves with bad pronounciation, they speak english. Fair enough too.
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Surely people know that many of the locally employed pilots who look chinese grew up overseas and can't speak a word of it?
That is why it might be hard for a local to understand that someone who might look Asian with a Chinese name does not in fact speak or understand Chinese. They have no concept of true immigration or assimilation like Americans, Canadians, Australians, or Europeans might.
Ever watch Chinese television? How many times do you see a black person, or even a white person, or any other race but Chinese?
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This has racist undertones that are totally inappropriate.
I DO speak passable Cantonese (I'm very Caucasian looking) and have many local friends. I've known them for over two decades and although SOME locals have xenophobic leanings, it's predominantly due to ignorance.
I have found them to be warm, friendly, welcoming people who have made my family and I very welcome and have given us endless opportunities.
Have you ever experienced the warmth and humour when "they" realise you can speak Cantonese? Try it some day. I'll wager that apart from (poorly enunciated) directions home, 90% of our foreign crew can't string a sentence together.
I DO speak passable Cantonese (I'm very Caucasian looking) and have many local friends. I've known them for over two decades and although SOME locals have xenophobic leanings, it's predominantly due to ignorance.
I have found them to be warm, friendly, welcoming people who have made my family and I very welcome and have given us endless opportunities.
Have you ever experienced the warmth and humour when "they" realise you can speak Cantonese? Try it some day. I'll wager that apart from (poorly enunciated) directions home, 90% of our foreign crew can't string a sentence together.
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Have you ever experienced the warmth and humour when "they" realise you can speak Cantonese? Try it some day. I'll wager that apart from (poorly enunciated) directions home, 90% of our foreign crew can't string a sentence together.
At the end of the day, a line is drawn and you will always be an outsider.
This has racist undertones that are totally inappropriate.
The Japanese are even worse when it comes to xenophobia and racism. There are second and third generation Japanese citizens that are shunned from their communities and whose children are not even allowed to go to school because they are not true Japanese.
Last edited by Sqwak7700; 7th Feb 2011 at 13:22.
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I agree with Okey in Post 26: unless it's a really serious crime, you don't rat out your mates. IF the rumour is true, then I don't think anybody did the right thing. IF the CC were stealing, then they should not do so, obviously. IF the CN was not happy with what he saw was happening, then he should have spoken personally to the CC and told them to put the stuff back, not rat them out. IF the FO was aware the the CN had ratted the CC out, he should have gone to the ISM and said something like "There are checks at security today, make sure your crew are not taking anything off the aircraft that they shouldn't". No names needed to be mentioned.
Bottom line: by all means do the right thing, but don't rat out colleagues to do it.
Bottom line: by all means do the right thing, but don't rat out colleagues to do it.
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Instead of choosing to show authority and tell them to put it all back and now as he watched, he chose to act like a backstabbing sneak etc... This kind of character doesn't deserve anything more than what he was attempting to do to others. It's ridiculous to suggest he deserves to have his name protected. He attempted to get those CC fired. Whatever he gets in return, is fair game. He's even too stupid for his own good to tell others and brag. I know, he didn't have the balls to stop what he didn't like and should have stopped and wanted to still stop it, or just meant to do it as viscously as possible. No respect or regard for this character either way. He deserves the few drops of Visine eye drop in his coffee that will give him the super runs for days. ;-)
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This sort of cockpit vs cabin crew gossip gets blown out of all proportion about once every year or so.. The gullible are quickly drawn in.
However, it is rare for the blame to be so publicly attached to an easily identifiable specific individual.
The absurdity of the reported incident makes most sensible grown-up people very skeptical about the whole thing. No hard facts, flimsy story etc. The only clear information is the posting on the internet of the supposed identity of the "master-criminal".
Why waste time just destroying his name/reputation on the internet. Surely, we have all the evidence we need to just drag him out of his house and throw him in jail etc? But, wait a minute.. What actually happened? Where are the facts? Who did you hear this from?
This is yet more stupid crew b*llsh*t. If you can't detect that, and then feel the need to spread the rumour, then shame on you. But wait a minute.. What if this rumour was actually about YOU?
Any normally intelligent individual who has spent some time in this industry, has learned that miss-communications are incredibly easy. No.. if you think you communicated your issue well, think again. Even if you think you did - you probably did not.
Add, the fact that many people involved in our day to day operation, are not native English language speakers. In addition as pilots we are generally high on IQ, and low on EQ, in much the same style as Dr Spock in Star Treck. Quite often we just don't "get it", in just the same way that the people we are working with don't seem to 'get" what we are telling them.
In an ideal world.. a Captain and ISM would not leave the aircraft without resolving all major differences. It is relatively easy to do this on the flight deck (if you pay attention, and are not oblivious to the sensitivities of your work mates) It is much harder to keep in pace with the mood beyond the cockpit door.
However, it is rare for the blame to be so publicly attached to an easily identifiable specific individual.
The absurdity of the reported incident makes most sensible grown-up people very skeptical about the whole thing. No hard facts, flimsy story etc. The only clear information is the posting on the internet of the supposed identity of the "master-criminal".
Why waste time just destroying his name/reputation on the internet. Surely, we have all the evidence we need to just drag him out of his house and throw him in jail etc? But, wait a minute.. What actually happened? Where are the facts? Who did you hear this from?
This is yet more stupid crew b*llsh*t. If you can't detect that, and then feel the need to spread the rumour, then shame on you. But wait a minute.. What if this rumour was actually about YOU?
Any normally intelligent individual who has spent some time in this industry, has learned that miss-communications are incredibly easy. No.. if you think you communicated your issue well, think again. Even if you think you did - you probably did not.
Add, the fact that many people involved in our day to day operation, are not native English language speakers. In addition as pilots we are generally high on IQ, and low on EQ, in much the same style as Dr Spock in Star Treck. Quite often we just don't "get it", in just the same way that the people we are working with don't seem to 'get" what we are telling them.
In an ideal world.. a Captain and ISM would not leave the aircraft without resolving all major differences. It is relatively easy to do this on the flight deck (if you pay attention, and are not oblivious to the sensitivities of your work mates) It is much harder to keep in pace with the mood beyond the cockpit door.
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Originally Posted by jonathon68
This sort of cockpit vs cabin crew gossip gets ............................................................ ..It is much harder to keep in pace with the mood beyond the cockpit door.
The Reverend
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The way I heard it, Capt. asked purser for ice-cream, Purser said none left. By chance Capt. caught purser on camera, putting ice-cream in her bag, had a hissy fit and called security to meet CC on arrival. I hope this Captain can make an adult decision when it is really needed as his resolution in this matter was very churlish. Must have had a lot of egg on his face when nothing was found in CCs bags on arrival; thanks to the F/O's fore warning!
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HD
Not too wide of the Mark
You may recall in years gone by we had a skipper on the Marrow called Ronnie Wong who in an earlier life crashed a Porsche Spider into the retaining wall at the Macau Grand Prix. Well his name wasn't Ronnie Wong but he was Macanese and certainly spoke Cantonese (and I should add as a footnote was held in the Stanley internment camp as a young lad by our Japanese friends!).
The F/A's never quite understood where he was coming from or going to, especially from the way he interacted with them.
As they say...deja vu all over again.
I scream, you scream, we all scream for ice cream
Not too wide of the Mark
You may recall in years gone by we had a skipper on the Marrow called Ronnie Wong who in an earlier life crashed a Porsche Spider into the retaining wall at the Macau Grand Prix. Well his name wasn't Ronnie Wong but he was Macanese and certainly spoke Cantonese (and I should add as a footnote was held in the Stanley internment camp as a young lad by our Japanese friends!).
The F/A's never quite understood where he was coming from or going to, especially from the way he interacted with them.
As they say...deja vu all over again.
I scream, you scream, we all scream for ice cream
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Bearing in mind this is entirely all rumor and hearsay wrapped up in a fact vacuum. Do you reckon he made a few adult decisions during the command course? Must be a really bad egg to be annoyed by being told fibs and then witnessing his/her crew "liberating" the items there were supposedly none of from the galley. He really should have told everyone how wonderful they are for putting him in that position shouldn't he? Sure everyone thinks he's a top guy when he's organising that urgent jumpseat or sorting the taxi fuel to get the purser home on her days off.
Sounds like the F/O was a nice chap but is it now standard ops for F/O's to countermand a skippers safe decision however well intentioned said F/O may be? Don't get me wrong, there's some mighty fine decision makers wearing 3 bars but is "I like your decision so I'll go along with it", and "I don't like your decision (ref safe above) so I'll find a way to countermand or short circuit it because I think you're being a bit of a plonker" an option now? Did the F/O discuss said countermanding/ short circuiting with the skipper before acting? Brave new world.
P.S. Ice creams a good thing.
Sounds like the F/O was a nice chap but is it now standard ops for F/O's to countermand a skippers safe decision however well intentioned said F/O may be? Don't get me wrong, there's some mighty fine decision makers wearing 3 bars but is "I like your decision so I'll go along with it", and "I don't like your decision (ref safe above) so I'll find a way to countermand or short circuit it because I think you're being a bit of a plonker" an option now? Did the F/O discuss said countermanding/ short circuiting with the skipper before acting? Brave new world.
P.S. Ice creams a good thing.
Last edited by okey; 21st Feb 2011 at 12:17.
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Just do a roster swap and fly with me .... you'll be so "down" at the end of your trip that you'll want to drink battery acid and then throw yourself off the IFC.
