Cathay Jackwagon
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Krug departure, Merlot transition
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But DO know WHY the controller is ticked off at you.
With all due respect to ATCOs who overwhelmingly do a good job 99% of the time
You guys really do need to get a life.
There are Dick heads everywhere on both sides of the mic.
We've all heard some pretty crappy RT calls from Aussie/Kiwi/Brit/Yank/Canuk crews all over the world on possibly a daily basis BUT maybe the person giving the crap has had a bad "hair day" So cut them some slack, frown if you have to and move on..................
Only yesterday over the Brisbane FIR Speedbird XX requested climb to FL380. ( currently FL 350 restricted to Mach .82 behind Thai )
He was given FL380 and about 15 mins later ATC climbed Thai and then once again speed restricted Speedbird to .82!!
Old Nigel quite rightly had more than a few words to the poor ATC fellow telling him in no uncertain terms that he wouldn't have climbed if they were going to do that as he wanted to resume normal speed and get back on schedule.
ATC were a bit sheepish, later they gave him a direct to and removed the speed restriction.
My point is that sometimes you do have to question ATC, they do and can make errors like this one.
So get down of your high horses, sometimes there can be a need to speak up.
There are Dick heads everywhere on both sides of the mic.
We've all heard some pretty crappy RT calls from Aussie/Kiwi/Brit/Yank/Canuk crews all over the world on possibly a daily basis BUT maybe the person giving the crap has had a bad "hair day" So cut them some slack, frown if you have to and move on..................
Only yesterday over the Brisbane FIR Speedbird XX requested climb to FL380. ( currently FL 350 restricted to Mach .82 behind Thai )
He was given FL380 and about 15 mins later ATC climbed Thai and then once again speed restricted Speedbird to .82!!
Old Nigel quite rightly had more than a few words to the poor ATC fellow telling him in no uncertain terms that he wouldn't have climbed if they were going to do that as he wanted to resume normal speed and get back on schedule.
ATC were a bit sheepish, later they gave him a direct to and removed the speed restriction.
My point is that sometimes you do have to question ATC, they do and can make errors like this one.
So get down of your high horses, sometimes there can be a need to speak up.
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: far west
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TELL ME IT ISN'T SO! OUR BRIT COUSINS ARE BECOMING MORE LIKE US EVERY DAY
When I was Training on the Airbus A310, the manuals were written by the
French, Translated into English by a German,who was schooled in England
and then Printed for us by a Spanish Printer.This sounds like it was the same
people doing this!
Thought you would like to see the notice that British Airways sent to its
pilots explaining what we in the US refer to as the "monitored approach"
method where on an approach to very low visibility and ceiling one pilot
flies the approach on instruments, and when the other pilot sees the
runway he takes the plane and lands by visual reference.
This removes the problem of the pilot having to make the transition from
flying instruments and at the last minute looking outside and "getting
his bearings" as the other pilot is already "outside". If the pilot not
flying says nothing by the time they reach "minimums", the pilot flying
automatically starts the "go-around" procedure as he is still on the
instruments.
Now try this actual explanation of this procedure from the British
Airways manual:
*** British Airways Flight Operations Department Notice ***
There appears to be some confusion over the new pilot role titles. This
notice will hopefully clear up any misunderstandings. The titles P1, P2,
and Co-Pilot will now cease to have any meaning, within the BA operations
manuals. They are to be replaced by:
Handling Pilot, Non-handling Pilot, Handling Landing Pilot, Non-Handling
Landing Pilot, Handling Non-Landing Pilot, and Non Handling Non-Landing
Pilot.
The Landing Pilot, is initially the Handling Pilot and will handle the
take-off and landing except in role reversal when he is the Non-Handling
Pilot for taxi until the Handling Non-Landing Pilot, hands the handling
to the Landing Pilot at eighty knots. The Non-Landing (Non-Handling, since
the Landing Pilot is handling) Pilot reads the checklist to the HandlingPilot
until after Before Descent Checklist completion, when the Handling
Landing Pilot hands the handling to the Non-Handling Non-Landing Pilot who then
becomes the Handling Non-Landing Pilot.
The Landing Pilot is the Non-Handling Pilot until the "decision altitude"
call, when the Handling Non-Landing Pilot hands the handling to the
Non-Handling Landing Pilot, unless the latter calls "go-around", in which
case the Handling Non-Landing Pilot, continues Handling and the
Non-Handling Landing Pilot continues non-handling until the next call of "land" or
"go-around", as appropriate.
In view of the recent confusion over these rules, it was deemed necessary
to restate them clearly.
When I was Training on the Airbus A310, the manuals were written by the
French, Translated into English by a German,who was schooled in England
and then Printed for us by a Spanish Printer.This sounds like it was the same
people doing this!
Thought you would like to see the notice that British Airways sent to its
pilots explaining what we in the US refer to as the "monitored approach"
method where on an approach to very low visibility and ceiling one pilot
flies the approach on instruments, and when the other pilot sees the
runway he takes the plane and lands by visual reference.
This removes the problem of the pilot having to make the transition from
flying instruments and at the last minute looking outside and "getting
his bearings" as the other pilot is already "outside". If the pilot not
flying says nothing by the time they reach "minimums", the pilot flying
automatically starts the "go-around" procedure as he is still on the
instruments.
Now try this actual explanation of this procedure from the British
Airways manual:
*** British Airways Flight Operations Department Notice ***
There appears to be some confusion over the new pilot role titles. This
notice will hopefully clear up any misunderstandings. The titles P1, P2,
and Co-Pilot will now cease to have any meaning, within the BA operations
manuals. They are to be replaced by:
Handling Pilot, Non-handling Pilot, Handling Landing Pilot, Non-Handling
Landing Pilot, Handling Non-Landing Pilot, and Non Handling Non-Landing
Pilot.
The Landing Pilot, is initially the Handling Pilot and will handle the
take-off and landing except in role reversal when he is the Non-Handling
Pilot for taxi until the Handling Non-Landing Pilot, hands the handling
to the Landing Pilot at eighty knots. The Non-Landing (Non-Handling, since
the Landing Pilot is handling) Pilot reads the checklist to the HandlingPilot
until after Before Descent Checklist completion, when the Handling
Landing Pilot hands the handling to the Non-Handling Non-Landing Pilot who then
becomes the Handling Non-Landing Pilot.
The Landing Pilot is the Non-Handling Pilot until the "decision altitude"
call, when the Handling Non-Landing Pilot hands the handling to the
Non-Handling Landing Pilot, unless the latter calls "go-around", in which
case the Handling Non-Landing Pilot, continues Handling and the
Non-Handling Landing Pilot continues non-handling until the next call of "land" or
"go-around", as appropriate.
In view of the recent confusion over these rules, it was deemed necessary
to restate them clearly.
