HKATC C-ops
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 6
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From: near mtr
HKATC C-ops
Do you think the staff morale and leave situation would improve after we got a new C-op? Some colleague say things can only improve after the other C-op left. But then other say we should not expect too much beacuse all managers are the same. What do HK controllers think?
very poor English.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 21
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From: Macau
It is most relevant to discuss the previous C (OP) who was extremely controversial and clearly punching well above his weight as a chief. He did not exactly improve his battered image by making his now legendary comment that ‘rocket science is not rocket science’. Priceless!
But one must look beyond that single person. More than a decade of catastrophic mismanagement can no longer be swept under the carpet. Haphazard planning, lack of procedures, lack of quality control, lack of standardization, and lack of training - in short: lack of any kind of decent management has resulted in a scenario where far too many controllers can only work one sector. This is management’s shortsighted way of providing bums in seats. There seems to be no real plan about cross training. Liken this to having 4 pilots in the cockpit. One can taxi, one can take off, one can fly and the last one can land the plane. If you will excuse the pun, it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that things easily go awry under such circumstances.
But it is the same old story: as long as nothing goes wrong expect no action to be taken. The bureaucrats who call themselves ATC managers issue endless amounts of memos and reminders full of gobbledygook and balderdash stating the obvious in an attempt to remain clean in case things go wrong. Their biggest fear in life is getting blamed for something and losing their pension.
Long gone are the days when management looked after controllers and in return got their respect. Now it is more a case of ‘us’ against ‘them’. It is hard to see any real improvement before the majority of the management has been replaced by younger and more capable individuals. Hopefully, this will happen soon. Meanwhile, the beatings shall continue.
But one must look beyond that single person. More than a decade of catastrophic mismanagement can no longer be swept under the carpet. Haphazard planning, lack of procedures, lack of quality control, lack of standardization, and lack of training - in short: lack of any kind of decent management has resulted in a scenario where far too many controllers can only work one sector. This is management’s shortsighted way of providing bums in seats. There seems to be no real plan about cross training. Liken this to having 4 pilots in the cockpit. One can taxi, one can take off, one can fly and the last one can land the plane. If you will excuse the pun, it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that things easily go awry under such circumstances.
But it is the same old story: as long as nothing goes wrong expect no action to be taken. The bureaucrats who call themselves ATC managers issue endless amounts of memos and reminders full of gobbledygook and balderdash stating the obvious in an attempt to remain clean in case things go wrong. Their biggest fear in life is getting blamed for something and losing their pension.
Long gone are the days when management looked after controllers and in return got their respect. Now it is more a case of ‘us’ against ‘them’. It is hard to see any real improvement before the majority of the management has been replaced by younger and more capable individuals. Hopefully, this will happen soon. Meanwhile, the beatings shall continue.
Last edited by RRSM; 3rd October 2010 at 16:05.
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
From: Orstraylia
But one must look beyond that single person. More than a decade of catastrophic mismanagement can no longer be swept under the carpet. Haphazard planning, lack of procedures, lack of quality control, lack of standardization, and lack of training - in short: lack of any kind of decent management has resulted in a scenario where far too many controllers can only work one sector. This is management’s shortsighted way of providing bums in seats. There seems to be no real plan about cross training. Liken this to having 4 pilots in the cockpit. One can taxi, one can take off, one can fly and the last one can land the plane. If you will excuse the pun, it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that things easily go awry under such circumstances.
But it is the same old story: as long as nothing goes wrong expect no action to be taken. The bureaucrats who call themselves ATC managers issue endless amounts of memos and reminders full of gobbledygook and balderdash stating the obvious in an attempt to remain clean in case things go wrong. Their biggest fear in life is getting blamed for something and losing their pension.
Long gone are the days when management looked after controllers and in return got their respect. Now it is more a case of ‘us’ against ‘them’. It is hard to see any real improvement before the majority of the management has been replaced by younger and more capable individuals. Hopefully, this will happen soon. Meanwhile, the beatings shall continue.
But it is the same old story: as long as nothing goes wrong expect no action to be taken. The bureaucrats who call themselves ATC managers issue endless amounts of memos and reminders full of gobbledygook and balderdash stating the obvious in an attempt to remain clean in case things go wrong. Their biggest fear in life is getting blamed for something and losing their pension.
Long gone are the days when management looked after controllers and in return got their respect. Now it is more a case of ‘us’ against ‘them’. It is hard to see any real improvement before the majority of the management has been replaced by younger and more capable individuals. Hopefully, this will happen soon. Meanwhile, the beatings shall continue.
If you can`t beat them, join `em. How many other ANSP`s are in the same ( leaky) boat?
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
From: Near the MTR
my GF in hkatc tells me all cop are the same
never dare to come up to the arena to fight the bulls
never dare to come up to the arena to fight the bulls
Why she needs him to come to the arena anyway? Hold her hand? wipe her nose? What's to fight about?
No bulls but lots of bull
from you gweiloairline. Time for a new GF
job. 
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: Exit A
I saw some pretty amazing stuff in HKATC. The majority of management including check controllers were third class politicians full of hot air. Sad lot who could remove the pleasure from having sex.
These are my comments:
• The smurfs in senior management are the biggest problem in HKATC. Poor at controlling and even worse at managing. Should not be allowed to ever set foot in a tower or control center.
• These so-called senior managers love gossiping about the controllers (!)
• Staff morale is extremely low. Most young controllers only get a fraction of their leave and fatigue is obvious.
• Senior managements usually spend their “leisure time” watching the radar in their homes. (What else is there to do on a Saturday evening?) Speaks volumes of their trust in staff and procedures - or lack thereof.
• Whenever they begin a sentence with the word “because” you know they are trying to pin the blame on somebody. Nothing is ever their fault!
• These managers love to point their fingers at ATCOs. If you are accused you have the right to argue your case but no matter how valid your points may be they simply don’t listen. You are up against the jury and the judge and cannot win.
• Like triads they use a system of bullying and intimidation to control the workers.
• If senior management did not turn up for work one day the two main differences would be that the controllers would actually be happy doing the job and the place would run smoothly.
• Don’t have too high hopes of improvements. Smurfs clone themselves and the chief smurfs’ successors will be cherry-picked!
• Recently there has been political talk of a third runway………Not required for at least 50 years! Simply train controllers to work like they do at any major airport in the world and the pink dolphins can keep their habitat!
These are my comments:
• The smurfs in senior management are the biggest problem in HKATC. Poor at controlling and even worse at managing. Should not be allowed to ever set foot in a tower or control center.
• These so-called senior managers love gossiping about the controllers (!)
• Staff morale is extremely low. Most young controllers only get a fraction of their leave and fatigue is obvious.
• Senior managements usually spend their “leisure time” watching the radar in their homes. (What else is there to do on a Saturday evening?) Speaks volumes of their trust in staff and procedures - or lack thereof.
• Whenever they begin a sentence with the word “because” you know they are trying to pin the blame on somebody. Nothing is ever their fault!
• These managers love to point their fingers at ATCOs. If you are accused you have the right to argue your case but no matter how valid your points may be they simply don’t listen. You are up against the jury and the judge and cannot win.
• Like triads they use a system of bullying and intimidation to control the workers.
• If senior management did not turn up for work one day the two main differences would be that the controllers would actually be happy doing the job and the place would run smoothly.
• Don’t have too high hopes of improvements. Smurfs clone themselves and the chief smurfs’ successors will be cherry-picked!
• Recently there has been political talk of a third runway………Not required for at least 50 years! Simply train controllers to work like they do at any major airport in the world and the pink dolphins can keep their habitat!
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: 44N 63W
HK Culture.......
The overriding culture in Hong Kong is:
The more you do, the more you can do wrong;
The less you do, the less you do wrong;
Do Nothing, Do Nothing Wrong!
You will find this work culture though out Government Civil Service, Government departments and in most organizations, such as the AA, CAD..... Sadly people in senior positions, be it in ATC, Government, and the like are far too scared to make any decisions just incase they get it wrong and be held accountable. The entire system currently rewards indecision.... and you can see this from the CE downwards....
Very sad indeed.
XV
The more you do, the more you can do wrong;
The less you do, the less you do wrong;
Do Nothing, Do Nothing Wrong!
You will find this work culture though out Government Civil Service, Government departments and in most organizations, such as the AA, CAD..... Sadly people in senior positions, be it in ATC, Government, and the like are far too scared to make any decisions just incase they get it wrong and be held accountable. The entire system currently rewards indecision.... and you can see this from the CE downwards....
Very sad indeed.
XV
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: In a hole in the ground
Bring back Man Well as C-OPS
No! No! Anyone but the Fawlty Towers waiter!!! 
Pleeeease go. Very soon. Just go. Its the best thing you could do for the sake of SMS.
Never a dull moment here.
11 HR enhancements the man says. Oh goody. They have been burning the midnight oil, haven't they? Come and join us on the doggo comrades. We're all stark raving bonkers on the doggo. 30 planes on frequency? Nooooooooo problemo! More tea?
The best one- an extra C3 shift on......wait for it........ Thursdays! Yes, thats it. Thursdays. ONLY Thursdays. Lets hope someone tells the airlines this is the best time to fly. NO-DELAY-THURSDAY. Yippeeee! Maybe its half price too?! And a free Disney T shirt for every child- or 45 year old supervisor. Wooohooo! Where do I sign up?
Still, we have plenty of staff. Course we do. The letter said so. You know, the letter the man-who-shall-not-be-mentioned had a gun put to his head to sign. That one. And the paper said so today too. Says we have enough rabbits, sorry, staff, to handle 68 now. Honest! Its in black and white! Pity most of them are 5 years from their first rating and several with 30-40 years experience just resigned- er, moved on.
Also on the grapevine, those lazy sods with ratings in the office will be on STANDBY on weekends- only cos we have so much staff you understand. Good plan. Make the buggers work. I mean they're not doing anything are they? 'Cept training the dozens of new ones who are already counted as Controllers. Thats all. Skip a few sim sessions? So what. As the Chief honcho says - give 'em a rating; should be easy. Engineering 101. Square peg- round hole? Bigger hammer required. Cinch. You controllers are so difficult to deal with.
Back to the party! More tea?
Pleeeease go. Very soon. Just go. Its the best thing you could do for the sake of SMS.
Never a dull moment here.
11 HR enhancements the man says. Oh goody. They have been burning the midnight oil, haven't they? Come and join us on the doggo comrades. We're all stark raving bonkers on the doggo. 30 planes on frequency? Nooooooooo problemo! More tea?
The best one- an extra C3 shift on......wait for it........ Thursdays! Yes, thats it. Thursdays. ONLY Thursdays. Lets hope someone tells the airlines this is the best time to fly. NO-DELAY-THURSDAY. Yippeeee! Maybe its half price too?! And a free Disney T shirt for every child- or 45 year old supervisor. Wooohooo! Where do I sign up?
Still, we have plenty of staff. Course we do. The letter said so. You know, the letter the man-who-shall-not-be-mentioned had a gun put to his head to sign. That one. And the paper said so today too. Says we have enough rabbits, sorry, staff, to handle 68 now. Honest! Its in black and white! Pity most of them are 5 years from their first rating and several with 30-40 years experience just resigned- er, moved on.
Also on the grapevine, those lazy sods with ratings in the office will be on STANDBY on weekends- only cos we have so much staff you understand. Good plan. Make the buggers work. I mean they're not doing anything are they? 'Cept training the dozens of new ones who are already counted as Controllers. Thats all. Skip a few sim sessions? So what. As the Chief honcho says - give 'em a rating; should be easy. Engineering 101. Square peg- round hole? Bigger hammer required. Cinch. You controllers are so difficult to deal with.
Back to the party! More tea?
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 395
Likes: 3
From: On a foreign shore trying a new wine diet. So far, I've lost 3days!
Controller take early-go
No more tea or controlling (God forbid) for you, early go, 'til you pass Engrish 101.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
From: Late break
Tower controllers take a lot of early-go without deducting TOIL. They all take PTB bus starting from 1pm.....the tower supervisors are really helpful!
On the beach, you ask for better English so this post is especially for you.
On the beach, you ask for better English so this post is especially for you.