Cathay poised to place order for widebodies
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Cathay poised to place order for widebodies
Cathay poised to place order for widebodies
By Leithen Francis
Place your bets, B787, A350, A380, B748i or more B777-300ERs?
And how many will be for KA
Scope anyone????
By Leithen Francis
Cathay Pacific Airways will shatter Airbus's A380 sales aspirations as it prepares for a widebody buying spree, with deals for long-range twinjets but no near-term plans to order the superjumbo.
The Hong Kong airline, which is a major Boeing 747 operator, has long been a target for Airbus's A380 salesmen. However, according to industry sources a request for proposals issued by Cathay in November centred on Airbus A330/A350s and Boeing 777/787s.
The airline is expected to finalise these orders this year, with one source suggesting that a decision will be made in June, ahead of the northern summer holidays.
Cathay chief executive Tony Tyler declines to comment on the RFP, citing commercial and confidentiality reasons, but confirms the airline "is evaluating new-generation Airbus A350 and Boeing 787 aircraft".
Cathay Pacific already operates 17 Boeing 777-300ERs
The Oneworld carrier needs new widebodies to cater for market growth and allow it to phase out older aircraft, say the sources. The carrier has also said publicly it wants to retire its ageing 777-200s although Tyler says the phase-out will not begin this year.
Cathay operates 20 747-400s, some of which are more than 20 years old, and Airbus and Boeing have been trying hard to secure deals to replace them with A380s or 747-8Is.
The airline was involved in the A380 programme from the start, taking part in early A3XX customer focus group meetings 15 years ago. Airbus remains bullish about the role that Cathay's main base will play in the ultra-large aircraft sector, forecasting that Hong Kong will be the largest hub for such aircraft over the next 20 years.
The airline is already a customer for the cargo version of the 747-8, with 10 on order, but industry sources say Cathay has no near-term interest in ordering ultra-large passenger widebodies. One option could be to streamline its fleet by adding more 777-300ERs to replace the 747-400s.
Cathay already has a large A330-300 and 777-300ER fleet, with Flightglobal's ACAS database showing 32 and 17 aircraft, respectively. Orders for eight A330-300s and 13 777-300ERs (plus six options) are held. Deliveries of the A330s will start at year-end and conclude in 2013, says Cathay, when the last of the firm -300ER orders are also due.
The Hong Kong airline, which is a major Boeing 747 operator, has long been a target for Airbus's A380 salesmen. However, according to industry sources a request for proposals issued by Cathay in November centred on Airbus A330/A350s and Boeing 777/787s.
The airline is expected to finalise these orders this year, with one source suggesting that a decision will be made in June, ahead of the northern summer holidays.
Cathay chief executive Tony Tyler declines to comment on the RFP, citing commercial and confidentiality reasons, but confirms the airline "is evaluating new-generation Airbus A350 and Boeing 787 aircraft".
Cathay Pacific already operates 17 Boeing 777-300ERs
The Oneworld carrier needs new widebodies to cater for market growth and allow it to phase out older aircraft, say the sources. The carrier has also said publicly it wants to retire its ageing 777-200s although Tyler says the phase-out will not begin this year.
Cathay operates 20 747-400s, some of which are more than 20 years old, and Airbus and Boeing have been trying hard to secure deals to replace them with A380s or 747-8Is.
The airline was involved in the A380 programme from the start, taking part in early A3XX customer focus group meetings 15 years ago. Airbus remains bullish about the role that Cathay's main base will play in the ultra-large aircraft sector, forecasting that Hong Kong will be the largest hub for such aircraft over the next 20 years.
The airline is already a customer for the cargo version of the 747-8, with 10 on order, but industry sources say Cathay has no near-term interest in ordering ultra-large passenger widebodies. One option could be to streamline its fleet by adding more 777-300ERs to replace the 747-400s.
Cathay already has a large A330-300 and 777-300ER fleet, with Flightglobal's ACAS database showing 32 and 17 aircraft, respectively. Orders for eight A330-300s and 13 777-300ERs (plus six options) are held. Deliveries of the A330s will start at year-end and conclude in 2013, says Cathay, when the last of the firm -300ER orders are also due.
And how many will be for KA
Scope anyone????
Last edited by SMOC; 1st Jun 2010 at 13:52.
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hmmm.....let's see:
British Airways - A380
Virgin - A380
Qantas - A380
Emirates - A380
Singapore - A380
Air France - A380
Korean - A380
....of COURSE we don't need a new large 4 engine aircraft....we're Cathay Pacific..!
British Airways - A380
Virgin - A380
Qantas - A380
Emirates - A380
Singapore - A380
Air France - A380
Korean - A380
....of COURSE we don't need a new large 4 engine aircraft....we're Cathay Pacific..!
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Cathay have always believed ,not that the A380 is too big, but the-800 is too small to get the best economics out of the overall design concept. With its massive wing and relatively short fuselage, the -800 is to the ideal A380 what the 747SP was to the 747. As result they are likely to stand aside until the stretch becomes available-and that is on hold while Airbus continue to grapple with production difficulties and need to avoid more expenditure on the aircraft. Emirates have also long been reported as keen to get the stretch in as soon as possible.
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Don’t think CX will go with an un-trusted A350. They will wait until the performance/reliability/figures are what Airbus states.
They will drive the 400’s into the ground like the classic’s as no one wants them, except airlines that will pay rock bottom prices when they are finished and sell to the lowest bidder. It’s the devil they know. Remember, most of the 400’s are paid for one would think.
The 777 is supposed to be to end of all aircraft but me tinks out of JNB they have a problem. The best A/C out of JNB is the 400. Depending the 400 config, the 400 still carries more passengers, but we are a premium passenger airline.
787 us too small and a 747-8 passenger will do well on the HKG-LON route where it EGLL has limited capacity.
But………………
They will drive the 400’s into the ground like the classic’s as no one wants them, except airlines that will pay rock bottom prices when they are finished and sell to the lowest bidder. It’s the devil they know. Remember, most of the 400’s are paid for one would think.
The 777 is supposed to be to end of all aircraft but me tinks out of JNB they have a problem. The best A/C out of JNB is the 400. Depending the 400 config, the 400 still carries more passengers, but we are a premium passenger airline.
787 us too small and a 747-8 passenger will do well on the HKG-LON route where it EGLL has limited capacity.
But………………
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I too think they will purchase the A350 (guessing -1000) and more B773ER. It would not make sense for them to go too much with one manufacturer. If they continue to order from both, they can play them of each other for the best price. And CX is ALL about the money.
The A350 will replace some of the A333 (non ADS a/c), and all of the A343, on routes like the Middle East, India, Australia, and even Rome. While the B773ER will continue to replace the B744.
I do however believe that a larger aircraft is also needed. The B748i holds 100 odd more pax than the B777ER, ie about 30%. The A380 makes sense into places that are slot limited. Isn't the new UK Government not only stopping the expansion of LHR, but are also going to reduce the number of movements? I am sure that either of these aircraft will be offered as a combined deal with their twin engined little brother.
Either way, more aircraft is a good thing. Maybe I won't have to wait until my 53rd birthday until I have the seniority for a command.
The A350 will replace some of the A333 (non ADS a/c), and all of the A343, on routes like the Middle East, India, Australia, and even Rome. While the B773ER will continue to replace the B744.
I do however believe that a larger aircraft is also needed. The B748i holds 100 odd more pax than the B777ER, ie about 30%. The A380 makes sense into places that are slot limited. Isn't the new UK Government not only stopping the expansion of LHR, but are also going to reduce the number of movements? I am sure that either of these aircraft will be offered as a combined deal with their twin engined little brother.
Either way, more aircraft is a good thing. Maybe I won't have to wait until my 53rd birthday until I have the seniority for a command.
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Looks like KA will therefore be getting some more worn out heaps of Euro cr@p from lady gaga green brushstrokes acrossthe road..
Oh, and do remember to turn off that SAT NAV during pre-flight
Oh, and do remember to turn off that SAT NAV during pre-flight
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more A330's and 777-300ERs in the mean time...
Then when they're assured of delivery slots...
787-9's to gradually replace A330's and A340's for Middle East and OZ
A350-900 or -1000 to gradually replace 777-300ER for EUR and NAM
In the mean time fly the 400s till bits fall off.
Then when they're assured of delivery slots...
787-9's to gradually replace A330's and A340's for Middle East and OZ
A350-900 or -1000 to gradually replace 777-300ER for EUR and NAM
In the mean time fly the 400s till bits fall off.
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no matter what they order....they better make sure it has a toilet in the @*%^&$^ cockpit...!!!
(its still my day unfortunately)
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Meanwhile, what are WE doing about securing a big pay increase? They'll need crews for these new planes. Cargo is double that of last year and front-end revenue is way up, according to GMA. Where is OUR share? Shall we let ANOTHER chance slip by, just like we did in 2008? I bet we will. A CX pilot only looks to better HIS or HER situation, not that of the entire pilot body. CX has counted on this for many years and will continue to do so. The ONLY way the pilot group will secure increases in pay and benefits is through industrial action, a mass exodus, or a dried-up pilot pool. What do you think the chances are of any of these situations existing this year?
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according to Bloomberg this is 787 v 350 and the VLAs are completely shunned:
Cathay Is in Talks to Buy Long-Range Jets, Shuns Super-Jumbos - Bloomberg.com
Definite requirement for long range twins with large cargo carrying capacity. I presume this will match the 789 with the 359. Interestingly, the 789 has virtually the identical pax capacity as the extensive 333/343 fleet, but the 359's capacity is more based on the 772, a very unsuccessful type at CX.
Does this leave the 789 as the favorite here, or do CX want to upgauge pax capacity?
Cathay Is in Talks to Buy Long-Range Jets, Shuns Super-Jumbos - Bloomberg.com
Definite requirement for long range twins with large cargo carrying capacity. I presume this will match the 789 with the 359. Interestingly, the 789 has virtually the identical pax capacity as the extensive 333/343 fleet, but the 359's capacity is more based on the 772, a very unsuccessful type at CX.
Does this leave the 789 as the favorite here, or do CX want to upgauge pax capacity?
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They are not going to replace 773ER's. This is an airbus pilot fantasy. They will be in the fleet in 25 years time. They MAY order the A350-1000 for aditional capacity but i think they are really interested in an A330 replacement and the smaller A350's may also be ordered or 787's if they have bribed the right people for slots.