Aussie onshore
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Aussie onshore
The time frame is fast coming to the end for the pilots in Australia to sign their rights away or return to hong kong! Again the union has given no direction to this part of the pilot body and will give their weak response of sign it and we will sort it out later right at the end giving no one any time to do anything about it ,after having reassurred everyone they are seeking legal advice and to sit tight with the big red letters "DONT SIGN ANYTHING" giving everyone false hope they will actually stand strong for once! I am starting to laugh out loud just like the guys upstairs must be.
I used to think pilots were quite intelligent people as a whole. The penny has finnally dropped and I now know what everyone knows in management. Its just oooh so easy!
I used to think pilots were quite intelligent people as a whole. The penny has finnally dropped and I now know what everyone knows in management. Its just oooh so easy!
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What is the deal with this? if I don't sign then am I flipping burgers come July or does that signal a move to HKG? ie sign or be fired or sign and move?
The whole 'don't sign anything' thing is very deja vu for me, don't know about the rest of you.
The whole 'don't sign anything' thing is very deja vu for me, don't know about the rest of you.
Stop getting your knickers in a twist. There is a week till the imposed deadline (one which is considered illegal in Australian courts of law ). Information is not available from lawyers in the flick of a switch. This tactic was expected and forewarned by your reps. Take a bex and relax.
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Ricepower I REALLY hope im wrong with this but if history is anything to go buy, I am right on the money!
I wonder what the wage threshold is for flipping those burgers? I assume they get leave loading?
I wonder what the wage threshold is for flipping those burgers? I assume they get leave loading?
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Ganker
I wont try and pretend I understand the issues and challenges you guys are facing, however there seems to a number of people expending a lot of cash and energy on your behalf. They can be found on the Forums and it appears to me they explained the situation fairly clearly.
If you need an instant answer, perhaps you should expend your own energy and cash and get some "polaroid advice"...... instant and of dubious quality.
If you need an instant answer, perhaps you should expend your own energy and cash and get some "polaroid advice"...... instant and of dubious quality.
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All,
Pprune will be alive and well with rumour and conspiracy theories leading up to the 28th. Some will be genuine, and caused by the stress this is placing on each individual. Much of it will be simply rumour stirred up by management to heighten your anxiety levels and leverage you into signing.
I do not see the current policy of "Don't Sign Anything Yet" to be anything other than giving the plan time to fully play out.
The sub committee has undertaken to give definitive advice prior to the 28th. There is no rush. Lets give them some room and the time they need and see what happens.
Pprune will be alive and well with rumour and conspiracy theories leading up to the 28th. Some will be genuine, and caused by the stress this is placing on each individual. Much of it will be simply rumour stirred up by management to heighten your anxiety levels and leverage you into signing.
I do not see the current policy of "Don't Sign Anything Yet" to be anything other than giving the plan time to fully play out.
The sub committee has undertaken to give definitive advice prior to the 28th. There is no rush. Lets give them some room and the time they need and see what happens.
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I heard a vicious rumour that the Hong Kong option doesn't involve the current housing allowance. Is this true; I hope not? If so and you are an Aussie based FO, you have to ask yourself why you are staying with this company.
No command on a base or come to Hong Kong and live in a shoe box...
What kind of choice is that?
No command on a base or come to Hong Kong and live in a shoe box...
What kind of choice is that?
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The information from the AOA seems straightforward in that it clearly defines the position of both parties and highlights where they disagree and proposes a very clear roadmap to deal with the points of disagreement.
I do not see how there is any room for rumour or speculation.
I do not see how there is any room for rumour or speculation.
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Only one way to find out!
Regardless of what 'Upstairs' thinks, I'm pretty sure the big red DON'T SIGN ANYTHING YET is having its effect. There will only be the weak few who will sign before we get the sub-committees advice. If DL only has a handful of signed contracts on his desk before we are given our advice, it shows him and his grown-ups that the AOA still has a voice, and ..... people are listening!!
Stay calm, we have until 23:59 on the 28th. That's a long time in politics.
Stay calm, we have until 23:59 on the 28th. That's a long time in politics.
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Loiter1,
C'mon you can do better than that. It is obvious you are trying to threaten the guys into signing with vicious rumour. Good luck!
Stand strong guys. CX Management will be posting here in force over the coming days. It is propaganda only. Wait for the updates from aoa Australia and make your own mind up.
Do not be swayed by rumour. Stick to the facts.
C'mon you can do better than that. It is obvious you are trying to threaten the guys into signing with vicious rumour. Good luck!
Stand strong guys. CX Management will be posting here in force over the coming days. It is propaganda only. Wait for the updates from aoa Australia and make your own mind up.
Do not be swayed by rumour. Stick to the facts.
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Hang Tight.
The majority are not signing!
This will be difficult for the Co.
With the current pick-up in business the Co. plan is to get you to sign over before the problem of coming recritments (Lack off) becomes obvious.
Time is on your side!
The majority are not signing!
This will be difficult for the Co.
With the current pick-up in business the Co. plan is to get you to sign over before the problem of coming recritments (Lack off) becomes obvious.
Time is on your side!
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Greg Norman, you are punching at shadows...
I am about as far away from management you can get and my 'rumour' came from a Hong Kong based guy who asked what would happen if he took an oz base and then subsequantly wanted to return to Hong Kong for a command.
If guys are signing then we are f#$ked. If the oz based guys don't stand firm on this then they/we will fall divided.
I am about as far away from management you can get and my 'rumour' came from a Hong Kong based guy who asked what would happen if he took an oz base and then subsequantly wanted to return to Hong Kong for a command.
If guys are signing then we are f#$ked. If the oz based guys don't stand firm on this then they/we will fall divided.
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As far as I know, the PBPA still stands! When you come back to HK, you get full expat benefits. Do you honestly think that anyone would waive or negotiate that right away? Those clowns upstairs love it when these sort of 'rumors' start. Ever heard of expectation management? If everyone says 'F.. Off, there's not a hope in hell you're taking that away from us. Full stop.', then they know they've got a fight on their hands. Loiter1, your comment should have said as much.
They feed on the weak, and the weak are signing. You've gotta ask yourself, "Am I one of the weak?" If the answer is yes, then there's not a lot anyone can do for you.
If on the other hand you decide to use your backbone, along with your fellow members, then you just never know what may be possible.
Personally, I don't think many have signed. The sub-committee seem to have a good handle on things. Be patient, follow their advice. Any better ideas?
They feed on the weak, and the weak are signing. You've gotta ask yourself, "Am I one of the weak?" If the answer is yes, then there's not a lot anyone can do for you.
If on the other hand you decide to use your backbone, along with your fellow members, then you just never know what may be possible.
Personally, I don't think many have signed. The sub-committee seem to have a good handle on things. Be patient, follow their advice. Any better ideas?
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Hold your horses
After reading through this thread it appears that there might not actually be many of you on the Australian base........
Regarding the number of officers whom have already signed the onshore version of COS 08 I highly suspect that they belong to the less senior f/o's on the freighter or DEFO's on the busses.
The rest are probably the ex-ASL freighter crews who have already seen an improvement to their conditions through extension of retirement age from 60 to 65. ( small point but for some of these huys a big one no doubt).
As usual my fears are rapidly becoming a reality.......
We pay for advice from our benevolent fund to the tune of approx 3 months full subs and we will mostv likely get the response our gut was feeling all along....... sign this deal with some attempt to attach a letter recording/registering our duress for signing so we may one day find enough money to go to court if need be to re-instate full BPP to those deserving and the prospect of attaining it for those next in line.
It is hard not to smell a rat in HKG when from the 1st July as we all onshore in Oz, another 30'odd extendees are to be allowed back onto the CPA seniority list thus triggering BPP for those on cos 99 next in line.
The rumours running around HKG regarding housing allowance for expats and BPP for cos 99 are just that..... rumours, but one certain chap in the Basing's office with an ever enlarging bald spot has started aking the odd potential returnee to consider their descision to return as the likes of these two items of cos99 might be a distant dream within a few years.....
Looks like the scare mongering is running at full steam.
Regarding the number of officers whom have already signed the onshore version of COS 08 I highly suspect that they belong to the less senior f/o's on the freighter or DEFO's on the busses.
The rest are probably the ex-ASL freighter crews who have already seen an improvement to their conditions through extension of retirement age from 60 to 65. ( small point but for some of these huys a big one no doubt).
As usual my fears are rapidly becoming a reality.......
We pay for advice from our benevolent fund to the tune of approx 3 months full subs and we will mostv likely get the response our gut was feeling all along....... sign this deal with some attempt to attach a letter recording/registering our duress for signing so we may one day find enough money to go to court if need be to re-instate full BPP to those deserving and the prospect of attaining it for those next in line.
It is hard not to smell a rat in HKG when from the 1st July as we all onshore in Oz, another 30'odd extendees are to be allowed back onto the CPA seniority list thus triggering BPP for those on cos 99 next in line.
The rumours running around HKG regarding housing allowance for expats and BPP for cos 99 are just that..... rumours, but one certain chap in the Basing's office with an ever enlarging bald spot has started aking the odd potential returnee to consider their descision to return as the likes of these two items of cos99 might be a distant dream within a few years.....
Looks like the scare mongering is running at full steam.
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Do you honestly think that anyone would waive or negotiate that right away?
We "waived and negotiated away" the careers of 49 colleagues and friends!!
What did we get in return for that? Oh right.... we all finally got some long awaited closure.
Except of course for the 49 or so chaps who will pay the price financially and emotionally for the rest of their lives.
What a joke!!
CX only ever NEGOTIATED with the AoA once!!! That was when there was 50 green and white jets parked on the tarmac in 1999!
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I too, have just read the update from the sub-committee. Was hoping to get an answer today on what to do. Nevermind, we still have 4 days left. I am wondering what exactly this means though...
from the latest update.
At least it sounds as though the AOA haven't given up yet. I'm glad. There is a small group who will get shafted royally if we have to sign the substandard contract that was thrown at us a few weeks ago.
Remember.... DON'T SIGN YET! The AOA will give us the best course of action, regardless of what some others believe.
In the unlikely event that discussions break down, or if we do not receive a satisfactory response, we will issue an urgent update on our legal strategy.
At least it sounds as though the AOA haven't given up yet. I'm glad. There is a small group who will get shafted royally if we have to sign the substandard contract that was thrown at us a few weeks ago.
Remember.... DON'T SIGN YET! The AOA will give us the best course of action, regardless of what some others believe.
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There is a small group who will get shafted royally if we have to sign the substandard contract that was thrown at us a few weeks ago.
Every COS'99 FO in Australia isn't a small group IMO! Give away bypass pay for a 'interim' contract? I don't think so Tim.
That's funny...
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Well Well Well , how right I was ! what a waste of money spending all that time and money on lawyers and looking after our interests ,to then bend over as you always were going to. I don't know who is worse the company or the union? I just got a pay rise today! tell it walking AOA ,its nothing short of pathetic!