Aus Onshore: New contract is out
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AOA email - read and respond urgently
Hi guys/gals,
there will soon be an email from the union, or so I hear. It will be directed towards Aussie based pilots. Please act on it urgently.
They say the four most dangerous words in finance are "This time it's different". In Cathay it is "it can't get any worse"!
I think on another thread there are some comments on salaries in QF vs Australia. Well I know that when I joined I was on the same salary as a QF 747 CN. Now as an A scaler(CoS99) in HK I now earn the same as senior FOs in QF.
I have a friend that joined CX in 94, left in 95 to join QF. He now earns more than me and he is still an FO. Funny, if he had stayed here he would be a B scale CN, but on about 20-30% less money than he is on now in QF - and obviously he has labour protection, LSL, etc etc.
My friends in V australia are on about the same money as a based Aussie B scale CN. So much for us being 10% ahead of our peers!
there will soon be an email from the union, or so I hear. It will be directed towards Aussie based pilots. Please act on it urgently.
They say the four most dangerous words in finance are "This time it's different". In Cathay it is "it can't get any worse"!
I think on another thread there are some comments on salaries in QF vs Australia. Well I know that when I joined I was on the same salary as a QF 747 CN. Now as an A scaler(CoS99) in HK I now earn the same as senior FOs in QF.
I have a friend that joined CX in 94, left in 95 to join QF. He now earns more than me and he is still an FO. Funny, if he had stayed here he would be a B scale CN, but on about 20-30% less money than he is on now in QF - and obviously he has labour protection, LSL, etc etc.
My friends in V australia are on about the same money as a based Aussie B scale CN. So much for us being 10% ahead of our peers!
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I see your point Numero, but at the same time, it can't be that bad if so many CAs where willing to take a pay-cut and QOL reductions just to stay on longer (past 55).
I have a friend that joined CX in 94, left in 95 to join QF. He now earns more than me and he is still an FO
Compare that with a HK based CX guy paying only 15% tax on a smaller salary, but getting housing allowance and education on top, and paying no tax on meal allowances (unlike the QF guy).
FWIW I've worked under both systems.
My friends in V australia are on about the same money as a based Aussie B scale CN. So much for us being 10% ahead of our peers!
V Oz Capt is on around $190K plus super 9%
B scale 1st year $209K plus 15.5% super
That is 10% ahead of V Oz!
But still way short of QF A330 Mainline pay.
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I just love it when guys spray CX salaries over the internet, particular when the only purpose is to indulge a passion for willie waving.
My accountant and lawyer always make their earnings public knowledge, that will be why their earnings have decreased markedly over the past 2 decades... oh hang on...
My accountant and lawyer always make their earnings public knowledge, that will be why their earnings have decreased markedly over the past 2 decades... oh hang on...
Gee thanks mate.
Our complete pay scales have been on Pprune many times and me posting just one scale is nothing new, so get over yourself.
"life's like a box of Chocolates, you never know what you're gunna get"
Well in this case we do know what we're gunna get and it's about 10% more than V Oz.
and what's worse about 20% less than QF
Our complete pay scales have been on Pprune many times and me posting just one scale is nothing new, so get over yourself.
"life's like a box of Chocolates, you never know what you're gunna get"
Well in this case we do know what we're gunna get and it's about 10% more than V Oz.
and what's worse about 20% less than QF
Last edited by nitpicker330; 13th May 2010 at 01:28.
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I am not trying to side anyone here but as far as pilot's salary is concerned, it has been published in another public forum and it is no longer a big secret.
Try this:-
Singapore Airlines Pilots Salary
Emirates Airlines
Unfortunately, you may search for pay scales of any other major airlines in that forum too - inclusive CX......
It may not be accurate but close enough ...........
VR
Try this:-
Singapore Airlines Pilots Salary
Emirates Airlines
Unfortunately, you may search for pay scales of any other major airlines in that forum too - inclusive CX......
It may not be accurate but close enough ...........
VR
When you can explain to me why my renumeration is the public's business then perhaps I may come around to your self appointed moral crusade for truth on this forum.
Until then, I will continue to be vocal in my opposition.
It also can be argued that the chance of a payrise has been diminished as a result of your broadcasting how well we compare to others.
Self defeating perhaps?
VR, the fact that the material is available elsewhere doesn't make it right and I hold the authors of those websites in contempt.
If the traveling public knew of some of the stupidity that inhabits forward of the flight deck door they would catch the !#$%^& train !
Until then, I will continue to be vocal in my opposition.
It also can be argued that the chance of a payrise has been diminished as a result of your broadcasting how well we compare to others.
Self defeating perhaps?
VR, the fact that the material is available elsewhere doesn't make it right and I hold the authors of those websites in contempt.
If the traveling public knew of some of the stupidity that inhabits forward of the flight deck door they would catch the !#$%^& train !
it also can be argued that the chance of a payrise has been diminished as a result of your broadcasting how well we compare to others.
Self defeating perhaps?
Self defeating perhaps?
Are you serious? Do you think public opinion effects this?
funny.....
Public opinion has no bearing on our renumeration (hence they have no right to the info) however those inhabiting upper floors and read this forum to garner the feel of the "electorate" certainly do have a bearing.
funny ?
Perhaps moronic is more appropriate.
funny ?
Perhaps moronic is more appropriate.
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Unfortunately, making the salaries public certainly does have an effect - not with the general public but with the non-flight crew airline staff (general management and workers alike). Particularly true in an airline like CX which already has a very wide range of T&C from local to expat. The animosity is most noticeable in situations where locals directly support the operations of and interface with the expat flight crew....and there certainly is animosity
I would be curious to know what the passengers involved in the recent CX A330 emergency landing think of their pilots' salaries.
And as far as Captain Dart is concerned, those members of the public who think that airline pilots earn too much can learn to fly them-f&%#ing-selves and offer to work for less.
And as far as Captain Dart is concerned, those members of the public who think that airline pilots earn too much can learn to fly them-f&%#ing-selves and offer to work for less.
To quote that famous Movie the Castle.
"Tell him he's dreaming"
Our esteemed Managers that make the decisions up on the 10th floor know exactly what all Airlines pay their Pilot's. They don't give a toss what Jo public think and they never will.
The other CX staff also know full well what my pay is, it's not exactly a state secret...... I'm not ashamed of my income and I don't rub it in their face.
If they want my COS then there is nothing stopping them from applying to become a Pilot.
Like Dart says.
"Tell him he's dreaming"
Our esteemed Managers that make the decisions up on the 10th floor know exactly what all Airlines pay their Pilot's. They don't give a toss what Jo public think and they never will.
The other CX staff also know full well what my pay is, it's not exactly a state secret...... I'm not ashamed of my income and I don't rub it in their face.
If they want my COS then there is nothing stopping them from applying to become a Pilot.
Like Dart says.
those members of the public who think that airline pilots earn too much can learn to fly them-f&%#ing-selves and offer to work for less.
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"If the traveling public knew of some of the stupidity that inhabits forward of the flight deck door they would catch the !#$%^& train !
They'd have a difficult time catching a train to HK from where I live!
They'd have a difficult time catching a train to HK from where I live!
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I was taught that to discuss what one earns in public (like on the internet) is rude and vulgar. It is also unwise.
Nitpicker; it has nothing to do with keeping information from managers and fellow employees, but everything to do repecting my privacy. Whilst I appreciate this information is readily available on the internet, there are many things on the internet that are inappropriate, but that does not excuse reposting such information.
Whether we like it or not the travelling public do consider us public servants and feel they have a say in what we earn. Indeed, airlines market themselves as "low cost" which translates in the public's minds as "fly with us as you get better value". Can you imagine Doctors, Lawyers and Accountants marketing themselves as "low cost".
I see the new UK government is proposing a "Banker Tax", do you think that would have come about had the scale of what Bankers' earn had remained private.
I believe what I get paid is private information. Whilst I accept that others have breached my privacy it does not excuse further and continued breaches. If you really feel the need to ignore the wishes of myself and others, so you can score some internet browny points over some anonymous poster on the internet, I suggest you do it by PM.
Like I said, next time you go to a Doctor, Lawyer, Accountant, shake his hand and ask "How much do you earn?".... see how far you get....
Nitpicker; it has nothing to do with keeping information from managers and fellow employees, but everything to do repecting my privacy. Whilst I appreciate this information is readily available on the internet, there are many things on the internet that are inappropriate, but that does not excuse reposting such information.
Whether we like it or not the travelling public do consider us public servants and feel they have a say in what we earn. Indeed, airlines market themselves as "low cost" which translates in the public's minds as "fly with us as you get better value". Can you imagine Doctors, Lawyers and Accountants marketing themselves as "low cost".
I see the new UK government is proposing a "Banker Tax", do you think that would have come about had the scale of what Bankers' earn had remained private.
I believe what I get paid is private information. Whilst I accept that others have breached my privacy it does not excuse further and continued breaches. If you really feel the need to ignore the wishes of myself and others, so you can score some internet browny points over some anonymous poster on the internet, I suggest you do it by PM.
Like I said, next time you go to a Doctor, Lawyer, Accountant, shake his hand and ask "How much do you earn?".... see how far you get....
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Whether we like it or not the travelling public do consider us public servants and feel they have a say in what we earn. Indeed, airlines market themselves as "low cost" which translates in the public's minds as "fly with us as you get better value".
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Sorry to bring some sense into this argument but if you look at the front page of the Fairwork.gov.au site you can search every award, EA and EBA that is registered under both the new and old framework.
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Flap 10........ not saying it is right, but have you never read an article or had a conversation with someone who clearly believes you are overpaid.... why should they care, unless they feel (wrongly) that they should have some input.
Grivation. Says it all really. Minimum wage, Pilots pay, all publicly debated and heading towards the same number I suspect.
Grivation. Says it all really. Minimum wage, Pilots pay, all publicly debated and heading towards the same number I suspect.
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Liam I normally agree with what you have to say but you've lost me with this stuff. Supply and demand are the only factors which affect salary in most industries and are certainly the only factors which affect our salary/remuneration - hence the A scale and huge housing and other benefits which were needed in the 1980's to attract us. Things have now changed hence the downward pressure since the mid 1990's. Sure governments can intervene but normally only to raise the lowest (minimum wage) and cap the highest (bankers bonuses) and then only if public opinion demands it - and there's not the remotest chance the two would ever meet as you suggest.