Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Fragrant Harbour
Reload this Page >

Perjury probe on Cathay execs over 49ers trial

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Perjury probe on Cathay execs over 49ers trial

Old 10th Mar 2010, 00:36
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: the rez
Posts: 255
Perjury probe on Cathay execs over 49ers trial

Perjury probe on Cathay execs over 49ers trial

Two Cathay Pacific executives are being investigated for allegedly lying during a trial over the airline's unfair dismissal of 49 pilots in 2001.

The Standard

Wednesday, March 10, 2010

Two Cathay Pacific executives are being investigated for allegedly lying during a trial over the airline's unfair dismissal of 49 pilots in 2001.

The complaint pertains to statements made at the trial last year by director of flight operations Nick Rhodes and industrial relations manager Zdenek Kroutil.

They said there are no documents relating to the July 2001 meetings of a Cathay review team that decided to dismiss the pilots.

Police received a report of perjury in December.

"The case is being investigated by the district crime squad of Central district. No arrest has been made at this stage," a spokesman said.

In November, the High Court ruled Cathay Pacific behaved wrongly in firing dozens of pilots in 2001. Seventeen pilots are now in line for up to HK$3.5 million in damages for being defamed by the airline when it sacked them and 32 other pilots - a group known as "the 49ers."

The dismissals came after years of wrangling over rosters and flying hours, with stepped-up industrial action in the wind.

Court of First Instance judge Anselmo Reyes also singled out current chief executive and then director of corporate development Tony Tyler, and Philip Chen Nan-lok, then chief operating officer and now chairman of John Swire & Sons (China), for making damaging statements against the pilots, including "holding Hong Kong to ransom."

The ruling is being appealed.

According to the complaint, Rhodes and Kroutil said documents for management meetings held over three days in July 2001 were destroyed after that year.

But subsequently they produced a crew list related to the same meetings, printed out in 2004, a source told The Standard.

Asked to comment on the complaint, Rhodes said he was "not aware of any perjury suit." Kroutil could not be reached.

The source said it is believed that during the trial last October, Rhodes and Kroutil "did not tell the truth while giving evidence under oath ... regarding some documents, in effect, committed perjury."

In court transcripts made available to The Standard, Rhodes said: "We weren't trying to be evasive. There were no documents attached to the meeting."

But there were various lists of crew as the only agenda item was to review whether they were working in Cathay's best interests, he adds.

Kroutil told the court that they were advised to delete the lists of crew, and so he did not keep a copy.
6feetunder is offline  
Old 10th Mar 2010, 00:52
  #2 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Israel
Posts: 7
What, Messrs. Rhodes and Kroutil alleged manipulators of the truth?

Incidentally, there are some choice bits of alleged truth manipulation by Kroutil at the S.O BBP tribunal hearing.
For instance when he stated that his department had nothing to do with the selection of S.Os for assessment. A statement flatly denied by Capt. A Wilson.

But I digress....
Calibre hily is offline  
Old 10th Mar 2010, 01:39
  #3 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 673
I am sure there were many statements made which were not entirely correct, however just taking the issue in the article, they were probably right in that at the time they knew of no documents about the meeting. I think they would have assumed that everyone destroyed the copies of the crew lists and that they had no idea IW kept a copy secretly. I'd also imagine that when they thought of the word 'document' they were probably thinking about minutes of the meeting.
geh065 is offline  
Old 10th Mar 2010, 02:06
  #4 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2004
Location: 3.5 from TD
Posts: 1,007
If that is the case then they should have said that during the trial, which they didn't, which is perjury. They were asked about what documents where present because the 49ers lawyer specifically wanted such documents. By denying the existence of such documents which they knew existed, they lied. They withheld evidence which could have affected the outcome of the trial and they did so because they feel that they are above the law.

Can't wait to see these degenerates taken away in cuffs.
Sqwak7700 is offline  
Old 10th Mar 2010, 04:07
  #5 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: hong kong
Posts: 233
Can't wait to see these degenerates taken away in cuffs

What about an ex-DFO and an ex-Basings Manager who, if I recall correctly, said the same thing in a court in the UK?

AnAmusedReader is offline  
Old 10th Mar 2010, 12:00
  #6 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: the rez
Posts: 255
From Wikipedia, the free encylopedia

Pseudologia fantastica, mythomania, or pathological lying, is one of several terms applied by psychiatrists to the behavior of habitual or compulsive lying. It was first described in the medical literature in 1891 by Anton Delbrueck. One definition of pathological lying is the following: "Pathological lying is falsification entirely disproportionate to any discernible end in view, may be extensive and very complicated, and may manifest over a period of years or even a lifetime."


The defining characteristics of pseudologia fantastica are that, first, the stories are not entirely improbable and often have some element of truth. They aren't a manifestation of delusion or some wider form of psychosis: upon confrontation, they can't acknowledge them to be untrue, even if unwillingly. Second, the fabricative tendency is long lasting; it is not provoked by the immediate situation or social pressure as much as it originates with the person's innate urge to act in accordance. Third, the stories told tend towards presenting the person in question in a good light. For example, the person might be presented as being fantastically brave, knowing or being related to many famous people.

Last edited by 6feetunder; 13th Mar 2010 at 18:29.
6feetunder is offline  
Old 10th Mar 2010, 12:04
  #7 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 33
Which came first? The definition or the manager?
Free Flight is offline  
Old 10th Mar 2010, 12:06
  #8 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: HONG KONG
Posts: 61
6feetUnder you are just too deep!
Toe Knee Tiler is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2010, 05:19
  #9 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Nowhere
Posts: 37


If any person lawfully sworn as a witness or as an interpreter, either
generally or in a particular judicial proceeding, wilfully makes a statement
in any judicial proceeding which is material in that proceeding and which he
knows to be false or does not believe to be true, he shall be guilty of
perjury and shall be liable on conviction upon indictment to imprisonment for
7 years and to a fine.
Now thats a shame. Spend the last years before retirement in jail. What goes around comes around, as they say.
&&& is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2010, 10:43
  #10 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: UK
Posts: 71
Porky Pies!

Would you believe it. The DFO and his little friend Sten have been interviewed at Central Police Station.

They allegedly lied under oath during the recent 49er's trial.

The DFO telling lies?

Surely not!
Checkmate is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2010, 11:16
  #11 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2002
Location: HK
Posts: 25
If the DFO is arrested or found guilty of an offense doesn't that put the AOC in jeopardy?
cadence is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2010, 12:37
  #12 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: London
Posts: 7
Rhodes and his apprentice wouldn't know the truth if it smacked them between the eyes. They weren't brought up properly.
Peter613 is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2010, 17:17
  #13 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Asia
Posts: 45
'Bout time

the "the little friend/apprentice" received his just desserts! key instigator of the infamous "chamber" meetings IMHO.
HKJunkie is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2010, 20:58
  #14 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 12
What Goes Around - Comes Around

If there are charges precipitating from this sorry chapter of Cathay history - I hope the concerned individuals are picked up at work and escorted off the premises in full view of the work force and management at Cathay City. Humiliation, degradation, depression, the fracture of families, loss of livelihood - loss of life - those involved in the perpetration of this act of industrial terrorism sold their souls in the pursuit of long term higher yields. The memory is fresh for me - like it happened yesterday.
Northern Harrier is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2010, 09:54
  #15 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Alabama, then Wyoming, then Idaho and now staying with Kharon on Styx houseboat
Age: 57
Posts: 1,437
Add another

What about the Screaming Skull ? Will he receive a subpoena and take the stand ? And if so, who will run Austrlia's civil aviation safety authority while he is back in town catching up with his old gang in the courtroom ?
gobbledock is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2010, 10:19
  #16 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2003
Location: hong kong
Posts: 294
Without revealing anything too skullilous was the name Screaming Skull deserved or not ??
mr Q is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2010, 13:46
  #17 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 67
yes it was.
PNM is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2010, 14:56
  #18 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: UTC +8
Posts: 2,623
Hopefully the 49ers will live long enough to ever receive their "HK$3.5 million" compensation.
GlueBall is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2010, 16:04
  #19 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 655

From here: Plagiarism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Plagiarism, as defined in the 1995 Random House Compact Unabridged Dictionary, is the "use or close imitation of the language and thoughts of another author and the representation of them as one's own original work."[1] Within academia, plagiarism by students, professors, or researchers is considered academic dishonesty or academic fraud and offenders are subject to academic censure, up to and including expulsion. In journalism, plagiarism is considered a breach of journalistic ethics, and reporters caught plagiarizing typically face disciplinary measures ranging from suspension to termination of employment. Some individuals caught plagiarizing in academic or journalistic contexts claim that they plagiarized unintentionally, by failing to include quotations or give the appropriate citation. While plagiarism in scholarship and journalism has a centuries-old history, the development of the Internet, where articles appear as electronic text, has made the physical act of copying the work of others much easier.
As was this from here: Pseudologia fantastica - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
126.9 is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2010, 17:42
  #20 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 7
I don't understand why the definition for "Plagiarism" is posted here. They are allegedly being investigated for "Perjury".
Tired_All_The_Time is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.