Question for all ye, pilots and controllers...
Join Date: Nov 2001
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Gweilo,
Well last time I looked at the job description of Tower Co-ordinator,then I seemed to be doing that job.Sweeping the runway wasn't on it.Neither was filling the holes with tarmac.Anway the first inbound was on 10 mile final when the runway re-opened,so I lay down my trombone at that.
Well last time I looked at the job description of Tower Co-ordinator,then I seemed to be doing that job.Sweeping the runway wasn't on it.Neither was filling the holes with tarmac.Anway the first inbound was on 10 mile final when the runway re-opened,so I lay down my trombone at that.
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Staff morale is very low in CAD these days. Many controllers have given up trying hard thinking it is pointless. Unlike a few years ago, there is no feeling of being in it together. Many controllers do an absolute minimum most of the time and their main objective is to stay clean and “get of there” a.s.a.p. Shame, but one must ask oneself: why is this?
Consider the following:
Our current head of department makes no attempt to hide his dislike of controllers. He once made the statement that “controllers are good for nothing other than vectoring airplanes.” He may not have intended this remark for a bigger forum but statements like that tend to travel like bush fire. Downgrading your own staff like that surely is not a clever thing to do and it is bound to demoralize controllers.
The irony is that he himself failed several times as a controller back in the Kai Tak days with one quarter of today’s traffic levels. He in fact only got his Tower rating in the end because he was destined for bigger things. Payback time, is it?
More than a year ago, CSB were doing a pay scale review and invited one of our 4 floor bosses to justify the controllers request to avoid a pay cut like other essential forces. However, the cool, cruel Cole man’s pension was just around the corner and he did not want to rock the boat. So he simply told the representatives of CSB “no need”. CSB walked away not believing their luck. Over the years, this decision will cost every controller hundreds of thousands of dollars in salary, gratuity and pensions. Nice man!
During a recent "Safety Meeting" our COP made the statement that Rocket science is not............wait for it!…………...ROCKET SCIENCE!
And you wonder why staff morale in HKATC is low? A brain & a good attitude is vital for controllers as well as for ATC management.
Consider the following:
Our current head of department makes no attempt to hide his dislike of controllers. He once made the statement that “controllers are good for nothing other than vectoring airplanes.” He may not have intended this remark for a bigger forum but statements like that tend to travel like bush fire. Downgrading your own staff like that surely is not a clever thing to do and it is bound to demoralize controllers.
The irony is that he himself failed several times as a controller back in the Kai Tak days with one quarter of today’s traffic levels. He in fact only got his Tower rating in the end because he was destined for bigger things. Payback time, is it?
More than a year ago, CSB were doing a pay scale review and invited one of our 4 floor bosses to justify the controllers request to avoid a pay cut like other essential forces. However, the cool, cruel Cole man’s pension was just around the corner and he did not want to rock the boat. So he simply told the representatives of CSB “no need”. CSB walked away not believing their luck. Over the years, this decision will cost every controller hundreds of thousands of dollars in salary, gratuity and pensions. Nice man!
During a recent "Safety Meeting" our COP made the statement that Rocket science is not............wait for it!…………...ROCKET SCIENCE!
And you wonder why staff morale in HKATC is low? A brain & a good attitude is vital for controllers as well as for ATC management.
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Throw A dyce - so are you now throwing dices in Macau? A job that befits you more as Poon says "handcraft" men!
Lepsep - of course you cant do flow; from my girlfriend still in hkatc, only the best are put in Approach, the not so good in Tower, and the LS in area, i.e. one of you
Lepsep - of course you cant do flow; from my girlfriend still in hkatc, only the best are put in Approach, the not so good in Tower, and the LS in area, i.e. one of you
Nice posts gweiloairline. Keep believing what your girlfriend tells you. Good to hear you have a handle on things in HK ATC.
Any chance you could get back to the thread instead of bagging the crap out of people you supposedly don't know? (or maybe you are still in ATC here?)
Without wishing to take his side here, any chance that the person in question's comment was taken out of context? Whether you like it or not our jobs are becoming more proceduralised by the guys on the 4th floor, and we look like a production line in a factory. It may not have meant to be derogatory- just a factual observation!
Any chance you could get back to the thread instead of bagging the crap out of people you supposedly don't know? (or maybe you are still in ATC here?)
Without wishing to take his side here, any chance that the person in question's comment was taken out of context? Whether you like it or not our jobs are becoming more proceduralised by the guys on the 4th floor, and we look like a production line in a factory. It may not have meant to be derogatory- just a factual observation!
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Cafe City
Glad you like the SIKOU reversal, only took 7 years from planning to implementation. Can't really comment on the lack of talk on the first 2 freqs. inbound but sounds like things were going smoothly.
The problem with sequencing into HK is that there are basically 7 streams of inbound traffic being integrated into 1 via 3 intermediate stages - ABBEY, BAKER and MURRY. The first 2 are relatively easy to set-up with an in-trail spacing (10nm for a single feed, 20nm for a dual feed). The third MURRY has its own problem in that traffic via SIERA can't be integrated into this neat in-trail scenario until it hits SIERA. That's where the trouble is, in that with 3 gate feeds the spacing needs to be 30nm in-trail through each one. Ideally, if HK had control of the SIERA traffic from top of descent then it could be integrated into the other 2 streams more smoothly.
Why 10nm/20nm/30nm? Well, the average speed through ABBEY/BAKER/SIERA should be reducing to about 280kts which then compresses down to about half that speed on short final as does the spacing. The aim being to have about 5nm spacing on final. HK has the overall picture but it doesn't have the overall control of all the inbound traffic until the SIERA arrivals join the fray. This is where rapid integration has to take place and will invariably lead to what may seem like a chaotic string of instructions. Unfortunately, things are unlikely to change until the whole Pearl River Delta traffic situation is rationalised and HK gets to control SIERA traffic a lot earlier.
If you can, I would urge you to pay a visit to the ATC centre and see the whole picture for yourself. Then, I think you will be able to see exactly what I'm on about and the guys there will certainly be able to explain it better than my attempts here.
On the beach
ps. I like the moniker
The problem with sequencing into HK is that there are basically 7 streams of inbound traffic being integrated into 1 via 3 intermediate stages - ABBEY, BAKER and MURRY. The first 2 are relatively easy to set-up with an in-trail spacing (10nm for a single feed, 20nm for a dual feed). The third MURRY has its own problem in that traffic via SIERA can't be integrated into this neat in-trail scenario until it hits SIERA. That's where the trouble is, in that with 3 gate feeds the spacing needs to be 30nm in-trail through each one. Ideally, if HK had control of the SIERA traffic from top of descent then it could be integrated into the other 2 streams more smoothly.
Why 10nm/20nm/30nm? Well, the average speed through ABBEY/BAKER/SIERA should be reducing to about 280kts which then compresses down to about half that speed on short final as does the spacing. The aim being to have about 5nm spacing on final. HK has the overall picture but it doesn't have the overall control of all the inbound traffic until the SIERA arrivals join the fray. This is where rapid integration has to take place and will invariably lead to what may seem like a chaotic string of instructions. Unfortunately, things are unlikely to change until the whole Pearl River Delta traffic situation is rationalised and HK gets to control SIERA traffic a lot earlier.
If you can, I would urge you to pay a visit to the ATC centre and see the whole picture for yourself. Then, I think you will be able to see exactly what I'm on about and the guys there will certainly be able to explain it better than my attempts here.
On the beach
ps. I like the moniker
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The real Gweilo Airlines,(The CLK boys) branch out into space travel.Get there in worse shape,if you ever get off the ground at all.
''Looks like a good way to have a short career'' Jim Lovell Apollo 8 and 13.
''Looks like a good way to have a short career'' Jim Lovell Apollo 8 and 13.
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Letter
Our spineless Association President wrote a letter supposedly on the behalf of controllers asking for an explanation of the factory worker comment but it was addressed to another spineless dog - our section chief only who is not even a controller. He was put there because shorty cannot stand anyone else. The figure head chief never even dare to come to talk to us in the centre, but on the 4th floor, he barks at all his hangar ons and only shut up when shorty turns up, then it is yes sir to every whisper. P Lok and A Lam must be rolling with laughter in their graves although it is through there lack of vision that shorty get to where he is.
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Yes the letter on the notice board.
Why it is the president feels the need to write in this style? soooo weak. He makes the apology or excuse. what a useless Association we have. nothing more than an extention of Management. Always telling us how good it is to work hand in hand with them. Pathetic. Start fighting for US! We don't care about shiney new centre, we don't care about shiney new radar system, we don't care about shiney new chairs! Get our pay cut back! Get our roster fixed! Get our leave system fixed!
Why it is the president feels the need to write in this style? soooo weak. He makes the apology or excuse. what a useless Association we have. nothing more than an extention of Management. Always telling us how good it is to work hand in hand with them. Pathetic. Start fighting for US! We don't care about shiney new centre, we don't care about shiney new radar system, we don't care about shiney new chairs! Get our pay cut back! Get our roster fixed! Get our leave system fixed!
Last edited by SuzieWong; 10th Mar 2010 at 13:47.
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can't agree more
i used to love my job as an atc very much but now, sorry boys and girls coming in and out of hk, i am not as helpful and efficient as before simply because i am not being respected by our lovely management at all, so don't complain excessive vectoring or delayed climb and decent....
by the way, you won't expect your assembly line worker, like me, to work efficiently and intelligently, will you??
i used to love my job as an atc very much but now, sorry boys and girls coming in and out of hk, i am not as helpful and efficient as before simply because i am not being respected by our lovely management at all, so don't complain excessive vectoring or delayed climb and decent....
by the way, you won't expect your assembly line worker, like me, to work efficiently and intelligently, will you??
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How safe is it now?
So will someone in the know pray tell me : Is it still safe to fly over HK?
There we have local Cathay pilots which Captain Parker says are not up to par
care only for $$$$$$$$$ and have never flown the Tiger Moth before;
Here we have mixed controllers with very very low morale belittled by their local boss.
Things changed since Throw a Dyce left ???
There we have local Cathay pilots which Captain Parker says are not up to par
care only for $$$$$$$$$ and have never flown the Tiger Moth before;
Here we have mixed controllers with very very low morale belittled by their local boss.
Things changed since Throw a Dyce left ???
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I think it is here very safe to fly. It might be just some trouble makers there. I like the atc people here in hk, they are very good professional. thank you for giving us good service.