Why ISM's think it is unsafe to start service?
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Why ISM's think it is unsafe to start service?
Dont know how long this has been the way it is done but know it was not like this not that long ago.
When the cockpit cycles the belts it used to be the start of service by the cabin crew. Now the belts get cycled and nothing usually happens. On two flights I have been on recently upstairs as a pax on the 400 it has gotten to the point of the belts being turned off, passengers begin wandering about and going to the loo etc but the crew are still strapped in. Both these times a passenger has asked the girl sitting by the door for something and she has said something and just remained seated. Could not hear what was said but the guy asking returned to his seat looking slightly confused.
How does the ISM know it is safe? What are they waiting for? Is it just to assert authority to let the crew know that she/he is in charge and they will work when she/he is ready and thinks it is safe for them to work? If it is just about angle of the cabin that is something only the front will know what will happen, if it is about anything else surely the ISM would have to do a quick tour of the cabin before allowing work to start. It seems to me to just be a way to reinforce that the cockpit dont really know what is going on and that the ISM knows best, rather stupid thing to reinforce especially with so many young crew.
Not only does this make it look like the crew are not communicating or do not know what is going on to the passengers as most know that there is a sign from the front when they can begin work. It also reinforces the belief that the ISM is in charge. Wont post what the most recent CRM course I did with the cabin crew and cockpit crew was like as it is a public forum but I think the idea that the captain is in charge needs to be reinforced.
Anyone know the reason as to why we do it like this? Understand belts being cycled and the ISM then calling all stations but why the wait, just makes us look unprofessional as an airline. If anyone knows what the ISM knows that we don't about weather it is safe to work please enlighten me. Both flight this happened on it was very smooth. Minor I know but whats the point?
When the cockpit cycles the belts it used to be the start of service by the cabin crew. Now the belts get cycled and nothing usually happens. On two flights I have been on recently upstairs as a pax on the 400 it has gotten to the point of the belts being turned off, passengers begin wandering about and going to the loo etc but the crew are still strapped in. Both these times a passenger has asked the girl sitting by the door for something and she has said something and just remained seated. Could not hear what was said but the guy asking returned to his seat looking slightly confused.
How does the ISM know it is safe? What are they waiting for? Is it just to assert authority to let the crew know that she/he is in charge and they will work when she/he is ready and thinks it is safe for them to work? If it is just about angle of the cabin that is something only the front will know what will happen, if it is about anything else surely the ISM would have to do a quick tour of the cabin before allowing work to start. It seems to me to just be a way to reinforce that the cockpit dont really know what is going on and that the ISM knows best, rather stupid thing to reinforce especially with so many young crew.
Not only does this make it look like the crew are not communicating or do not know what is going on to the passengers as most know that there is a sign from the front when they can begin work. It also reinforces the belief that the ISM is in charge. Wont post what the most recent CRM course I did with the cabin crew and cockpit crew was like as it is a public forum but I think the idea that the captain is in charge needs to be reinforced.
Anyone know the reason as to why we do it like this? Understand belts being cycled and the ISM then calling all stations but why the wait, just makes us look unprofessional as an airline. If anyone knows what the ISM knows that we don't about weather it is safe to work please enlighten me. Both flight this happened on it was very smooth. Minor I know but whats the point?
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Well actually the ISM is not in charge of the cabin, the most senior member of cabin crew but the captain is still in charge, even of the cabin. Or have I missed something? Understand that the ISM calls all stations before they get up, what I am asking is why have they started to wait so long?
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This is one of those things which has gone back and forth between FOP and ISD, and been over-managed in the usual CX way.
Here is the story...
Once upon a time, the seatbelt signs were cycled when it seemed safe for the crew to work. But it then subsequently became bumpy, and one of the cabin crew one copped a "work related injury" in a galley. The CSR stated something along the lines of "it was bumpy, but the cockpit crew had cycled the signs so we had to start the service".
The ISM's are now supposed use their common sense
and evaluate if conditions are safe to work before releasing the crew....
Here is the story...
Once upon a time, the seatbelt signs were cycled when it seemed safe for the crew to work. But it then subsequently became bumpy, and one of the cabin crew one copped a "work related injury" in a galley. The CSR stated something along the lines of "it was bumpy, but the cockpit crew had cycled the signs so we had to start the service".
The ISM's are now supposed use their common sense
and evaluate if conditions are safe to work before releasing the crew....
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The ISM's are now supposed use their common sense and evaluate if conditions are safe to work before releasing the crew....
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And there I was thinking that picture box up the front with blue and brown and a cross in the middle told us what the angle was. All along I should have been asking the chief and ignoring the fancy pictures
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I have seen the same scenario that SloppyJoe was talking about take place.
Rather comical to see the passengers walking around the cabin and the crew strapped down, wide-eyed, and on the verge of panic (as in what should I do?)
Bizarre that the ISM can access the conditions as safe from her position in the cabin.
Rather comical to see the passengers walking around the cabin and the crew strapped down, wide-eyed, and on the verge of panic (as in what should I do?)
Bizarre that the ISM can access the conditions as safe from her position in the cabin.
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I am also curious as to how the ISM makes the decision to let the crew work after waiting a finite period of time after cycling the belts.
Maybe they have an 'iWeatherRadar' app on their iPhones.......let's face it....it wouldn't be hard for the app to give a more reliable indication of turbulence in cloud than the airbus radar!
On a slightly different vein, I was recently paxing to HK on ID travel, and was seated behind the bulkhead near two crew seats. During some fairly rough bumps, the crew asked the cabin crew to please be seated..........imagine my surprise when two crew came and sat down on the crew seats, BUT DIDN'T BUCKLE UP. Seatbelts were left dangling down beside them.
lmh
Maybe they have an 'iWeatherRadar' app on their iPhones.......let's face it....it wouldn't be hard for the app to give a more reliable indication of turbulence in cloud than the airbus radar!
On a slightly different vein, I was recently paxing to HK on ID travel, and was seated behind the bulkhead near two crew seats. During some fairly rough bumps, the crew asked the cabin crew to please be seated..........imagine my surprise when two crew came and sat down on the crew seats, BUT DIDN'T BUCKLE UP. Seatbelts were left dangling down beside them.
lmh
I personally couldn't care less what is happening in the cabin except in an emergency. If CX wants me to care they would have to pay me extra, simple.
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manslaughter? was the service that bad?
(Of course I care about safety related issues, I was referring to the quality of the inflight service/working pattern of the cabin crew etc.)
(Of course I care about safety related issues, I was referring to the quality of the inflight service/working pattern of the cabin crew etc.)
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Was told during the recent annual hand holding course that the cabin crew have been told not to alert the cockpit crew of any abnormalities they notice until 60 seconds after V1. Quite how they know when V1 is is a little beyond me. 