No upgrades for SO's!
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Email the AOA!
This thread is stupid. No one gives a crap in the real world. Please, please, please email the AOA or have a personal meeting with top management. I think we all pay the HKAOA to do something, so let them be our representitive!
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Sure...lets ask the AOA. Lets see - last time they were involved in anything all the A scalers got 3 more years of A scale and then B scale to 65. All the B scale commanders got 65. All the curent FO's got bypass on a base where they can sit forever and collect Cpt pay. And all the SO's got sweet F all. They have to sit on SO scales indefinately and then wait 15 years for command and then retire at 55.
Way to GO!!!
Way to GO!!!
Last edited by yokebearer; 24th Oct 2009 at 18:35.
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Well done, Mr. Bonaqua.
With a single post, you've managed to reduce a healthy argument to nothing, (but rest assured), in the real world the rest of us "give a crap". Ads for the email to the AOA, good on you! I think I might even roster a little one-on-one time next week to explore the idea of mutual-trust/co-op management/little-did-we-know-about-ass-*******-of-newly-hired-dumbasses with management.
Oh, let me trust my family, future and career with an airline I believe in. Because, as things stand, my buddies' contract at Easyjet is worth more than your undersigned FO will ever earned in the Fragrent Harbour. Sink or swim?
With a single post, you've managed to reduce a healthy argument to nothing, (but rest assured), in the real world the rest of us "give a crap". Ads for the email to the AOA, good on you! I think I might even roster a little one-on-one time next week to explore the idea of mutual-trust/co-op management/little-did-we-know-about-ass-*******-of-newly-hired-dumbasses with management.
Oh, let me trust my family, future and career with an airline I believe in. Because, as things stand, my buddies' contract at Easyjet is worth more than your undersigned FO will ever earned in the Fragrent Harbour. Sink or swim?
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With Oz and middle east mainly going 2 man crew under the new AFTLS there will be yet more perceived (by Management) surplus crew. 
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Second Officers.
This sort of idea went out with DC-7's, Constellations and Stratocruisers.
And...Qantas.
Get real....directly hire FirstOfficers and leave this SO cr*p behind.
CX...stuck in the past.
This sort of idea went out with DC-7's, Constellations and Stratocruisers.
And...Qantas.
Get real....directly hire FirstOfficers and leave this SO cr*p behind.
CX...stuck in the past.
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A'men, 411A! Very far in the past indeed...
CX hires Second Officers, then....goes around 'em and hires direct entry First Officers.
Imagine....how demoralizing is that.
Now, some might say, 'well on our longer sectors, these Second Officers are very useful.'
Baloney, I say....hire pilots to be pilots, not just sit there keeping the plog up to date.
SQ had the right idea....train new guys to proficiency, then put 'em to work actually flying the airplane.
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As far as I know, there's even a surplus of graduated cadets now. Apparently the latest group of graduates will not start working for the company for another year, *if* they get offered a contract which is not a guarantee.
Simple mind doing simple math here. Natural career progression: SO->FO->CN->retiree. Now all of a sudden there would be no one retiring for another 10 years (suppose all CN stay on till 65), it ain't hard to do the math backwards. There's simply no need to change the status quo if they ain't losing anyone from the top of the chart. Even if the fleet keeps expanding by say maybe 1 per month, they would still have no problem crewing them for quite some time, considering the fact that they have too many CN's as of now and make them do relief sectors all the time.
Simple mind doing simple math here. Natural career progression: SO->FO->CN->retiree. Now all of a sudden there would be no one retiring for another 10 years (suppose all CN stay on till 65), it ain't hard to do the math backwards. There's simply no need to change the status quo if they ain't losing anyone from the top of the chart. Even if the fleet keeps expanding by say maybe 1 per month, they would still have no problem crewing them for quite some time, considering the fact that they have too many CN's as of now and make them do relief sectors all the time.
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So what is the answer then clearly Billy Sex Crime and yokebearer do not think it is worth contacting the AoA.
What else can we do to ensure we are not screwed over on BPP, especially when the hiring of DEFO's start again in the next upswing?
What else can we do to ensure we are not screwed over on BPP, especially when the hiring of DEFO's start again in the next upswing?
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Sloppy Joe.
I like an optimist!
But I don't think the Company are going to let you sit around doing nothing. I believe that the papework is being done on S/O type conversion courses to shuffle people onto busier ULH fleets.
There is a planned trickle intake of the newly graduating Cadets, but it is correct that most will be waiting on the sidelines for 6-12 months.
(Edited for bad speeling.)
I like an optimist!
But I don't think the Company are going to let you sit around doing nothing. I believe that the papework is being done on S/O type conversion courses to shuffle people onto busier ULH fleets.There is a planned trickle intake of the newly graduating Cadets, but it is correct that most will be waiting on the sidelines for 6-12 months.
(Edited for bad speeling.)
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Why on God's green earth would the company do type conversion courses for S/Os, instead of simply doing an upgrade and better utilizing them? Makes zero sense. Therefore, it must be true..... 
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Yokebearer: some shoite being spoken here
All the current FO's are not on base on BPP. In fact very few are, however, the next command is going to be offered to the senior most FO, based or not. Should the Command be turned down, BPP will be reallocated. Stand-by for fireworks on that one!
I understand about half the current SO's are on COS 98, RA 65 and no BPP. That was the deal they signed and surely there can be no complaints about that. When they joined DEFO's were being recruited, so with an element of homework they should have known the score upon joining.
The other half-ish who joined on COS99 had the option to stay or go. Maybe not ideal, but at least they had an option to stay on the deal they signed. The company are determined not to pay BPP, and the only leverage is coming from the very hard work of a few AOA members and the cash provided by the AOA members.
I am not sure which category you are, COS08/ COS99 or whatever; in any event the only people protecting your interests in any way, shape or form is the AOA. Judging by your post, I would guess you are not are member of the AOA and should the AOA get a cash settlement for the litigation relating to the unpaid SO BPP, I don't expect you will want a payout.
I understand about half the current SO's are on COS 98, RA 65 and no BPP. That was the deal they signed and surely there can be no complaints about that. When they joined DEFO's were being recruited, so with an element of homework they should have known the score upon joining.
The other half-ish who joined on COS99 had the option to stay or go. Maybe not ideal, but at least they had an option to stay on the deal they signed. The company are determined not to pay BPP, and the only leverage is coming from the very hard work of a few AOA members and the cash provided by the AOA members.
I am not sure which category you are, COS08/ COS99 or whatever; in any event the only people protecting your interests in any way, shape or form is the AOA. Judging by your post, I would guess you are not are member of the AOA and should the AOA get a cash settlement for the litigation relating to the unpaid SO BPP, I don't expect you will want a payout.
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Liam - you misanderstand. I am a member. And I am cos99. I am not talking about the SO bypass - if you read my post properly you won't find it anywhere in there. The AOA is doing a great job on that court case so far.
What I am talking about is the absolute cluster failure the so called negotiations a few months ago became.
It was essentially teh old boys club protecting themselves by awarding themselves 65 - and absolutely nothing came out of it for junior crew. And the AOA failed to stop the shamefull way in which cos99 vs cos08 was used by the company to achive this aim and split the pilot group.
blablablablablaaahhh and so on
What I am talking about is the absolute cluster failure the so called negotiations a few months ago became.
It was essentially teh old boys club protecting themselves by awarding themselves 65 - and absolutely nothing came out of it for junior crew. And the AOA failed to stop the shamefull way in which cos99 vs cos08 was used by the company to achive this aim and split the pilot group.
blablablablablaaahhh and so on
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Hello Guys
Just a quick question. Few of my friends who are based in N.America their 3 year commitment on the freighter is coming up and I think all of them are moving to HKG on the Pax side of the operation, will that effect you SO's if they move, than who will crew the open slot they leave behind in NA freighter side, Can you SO's bid for those slots. I am sorry for what is happening to you guys
Just a quick question. Few of my friends who are based in N.America their 3 year commitment on the freighter is coming up and I think all of them are moving to HKG on the Pax side of the operation, will that effect you SO's if they move, than who will crew the open slot they leave behind in NA freighter side, Can you SO's bid for those slots. I am sorry for what is happening to you guys
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JFO
Junior First Officers went out with Stratocruisers at most other companies
It should be, either First Officer or Senior First Officer.
Train to proficiency...something CX seems to have left behind with their Second Officer nonsense.
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Freighter Commit
USpilot:
In order for a freighter FO to move on to the pax basing several things need to happer:
1. There is an FO slot available in seniority order. Meaning the more senior officer has been offered the upgrade/slot.
2. The freighter basing can be covered. FOs have been kept on the freighter for up to two years if there is not enough FOs to cover the roster.
3. The officer elects to take the base offered.
4. The officer agrees to take any course (ie any airplane)
The co. will want to keep the freighter FOs on the 400 but with the changes in the pax 400 schedule it may not always work that way from now on.
As for who will replace them, all new hire FOs and SOs on COS08 are now on the unified payscale and therefore if 400 qualified will fly either freighter or pax. As such the freighter FOs after their commitment is up, may be able (or forced) to stay on the freighter base, but move on to unified pay (cos08). It should also mean that FOs and SOs can bid for 400 bases be they freighter or not.
As with anything stand by for new message !
Cheers
FG
In order for a freighter FO to move on to the pax basing several things need to happer:
1. There is an FO slot available in seniority order. Meaning the more senior officer has been offered the upgrade/slot.
2. The freighter basing can be covered. FOs have been kept on the freighter for up to two years if there is not enough FOs to cover the roster.
3. The officer elects to take the base offered.
4. The officer agrees to take any course (ie any airplane)
The co. will want to keep the freighter FOs on the 400 but with the changes in the pax 400 schedule it may not always work that way from now on.
As for who will replace them, all new hire FOs and SOs on COS08 are now on the unified payscale and therefore if 400 qualified will fly either freighter or pax. As such the freighter FOs after their commitment is up, may be able (or forced) to stay on the freighter base, but move on to unified pay (cos08). It should also mean that FOs and SOs can bid for 400 bases be they freighter or not.
As with anything stand by for new message !
Cheers
FG
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Emirates are recruiting First Officers!! They have been since Sept 09, requiring FO's for expansion plans. Current fleet 138, 200 by 2012 and 300 by 2016. Good command prospects vs CX's 14-15yrs to left seat. CX is a Capt's airline, so are you happy to sit in the back and eventually the left seat for most of your career?