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Negative Ionizer/clean air

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Old 17th Sep 2009, 10:44
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Negative Ionizer/clean air

Does anyone know if there is a shop in Hong Kong that sells Negative Ionizer machines. The makers claim they dramatically improve domestic indoor air quality and I'd like to give one a try. My thanks.

Prince of Dzun
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Old 17th Sep 2009, 11:33
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I think you can get air purifiers in Fortress with that feature.
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Old 17th Sep 2009, 14:17
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if you take a look at the underlying principle of ionizer machines you will find that it does not remove any particles, but makes them cling to walls, curtains etc until they loose their electrical charge and let go, to be either breathed in or ionized again.
if you want proper indoor filtration go for a IQ-Air filtration system.
Yes, they are expensive, but they actually do what it says on the box, as opposed to a lot of other products.
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Old 17th Sep 2009, 15:15
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Why, what's wrong with the air???
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Old 18th Sep 2009, 08:59
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Busy B;
Thanks for the reply. I'll chase up Fortress and see what they have.

freightdog 188;
Thanks, what you say is interesting and informative. Google says there is a High Density Negative Ion Generator called a " pure ion " available from a company in Japan at US$878. They claim it will flood the room with negative ions resulting in any number of good benefits. I can't help wondering how all these negative ions would react in a closed off airconditioned room. Would the airconditioning system suck them out or would they simply (considering their structure) remain circulating within the room. Any ideas about this? Regards

Prince of Dzun
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Old 18th Sep 2009, 15:08
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Go with the IQ Air. Have 2 in my place, what a world of difference. There are several independent testers out there. Read some of their reports. The filters you buy at Fortress and the like do essentially nothing. I did lot's of research before buying. You can't beat the performance of the IQ.
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Old 19th Sep 2009, 05:00
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if you still want an ionizer you should consider a)
the fact that they actually create ozone pollution in your home

Ozone can cause breathing problems, trigger asthma
- It can cause coughing and chest pains, and can irritate the throat and eyes
- It can lower resistance to respiratory diseases
- It can cause inflammation and malfunction of the lungs
- People already suffering from respiratory problems, such as asthma, are especially vulnerable)

and b) much more importantly this U.S. lawsuit and bear in mind that they are not bound by this ruling over here...

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Air Cleaner Cases Speak to Truth in Advertising


David M. Governo, Esq.
Partner
Governo Law Firm LLC
Boston, Mass.

Sarah Governo Allar
Paralegal
Governo Law Firm LLC
Boston, Mass.

The perils of over-promising and under-delivering have become even clearer in light of recent settlements concerning the marketing of air purifiers from Brookstone and Sharper Image.

Brookstone sold both its own Pure-Ion model and Sharper Image’s Ionic Breeze air purifiers. These companies implied results that the products apparently did not deliver. Disgruntled customers filed lawsuits claiming that the companies deceived them and that the products did not effectively remove dust, pollen and other impurities from the air, thus failing to perform their marketed and warranted purpose. These lawsuits were recently settled, and the court documents supporting the settlements tell an interesting story about the hazards of overzealous advertising.

Brookstone

In accordance with the settlement agreement, Brookstone must mail class notices by Feb. 12, describing the suit and the settlement to all persons who purchased a full-room Pure-Ion air purifier other than the Pure-Ion Advanced. Brookstone is also directed to publish the class notices in USA Today.

Brookstone is to give each member of the settlement class a $20 store credit toward the purchase of any Brookstone product and valid for one year. Members of the settlement class may opt to return their units for a store credit equal to the purchase price paid.

In addition, the settlement agreement enforces multiple conditions regarding the production of the Pure-Ion air purifier. Prior to future marketing or mass production, units must be submitted for testing of its clean air delivery rate, the standard for overall efficiency and effectiveness of indoor air purifiers.

CADR indicates the volume of contaminant-free air delivered by an air purifier, measuring smoke on a scale of 10 to 450, dust on a scale of 10 to 400, and pollen on a scale of 25 to 250. The higher the numbers, the faster the unit filters the air.

The only full-room ionizing air purifiers Brookstone can continue selling under the settlement are new units that achieve an average CADR of more than 100 in the three categories and that also meet the Underwriters Laboratory’s Standard 867 standards for ozone emissions.

The settlement agreement also forces Brookstone to alter its marketing by May 1. In all marketing materials, Brookstone must publish average CADRs and any reference to CADR testing must include a statement providing a link to a Web site that explains CADR testing and provides a summary of the actual test results. Brookstone advertising, product packaging and owners’ manuals for full-room ionizing purifiers must include a statement that the unit is “not a medical device.” Furthermore, Brookstone is prohibited from referring to the Pure-Ion or the Ionic Breeze as the “leading silent air purifier” or from using language indicating that the unit effectively cleans the air.

A hearing for the final approval of the settlement is set for April 5. The costs of the attorneys’ fees portion of the lawsuit are limited to $1.2 million. However, the full cost remains unknown and depends on how many members of the settlement class return their products and use their $20 vouchers.

Sharper Image

The Sharper Image settlement dealt with similar issues for the Ionic Breeze air purifier. A settlement on Jan. 16 requires the company:

* to offer $19 merchandise credits to the 3.2 million consumers who purchased the products,
* to sell Ozone Guard attachments for $7 per unit,
* to test all Ionic Breeze models for ozone emissions using the UL 867 test protocol, and
* to restrict its advertising.

With respect to the advertising restrictions, Sharper Image has agreed:

* to make claims based solely on reliable scientific testing,
* not to state that the Ionic Breeze is a medical device, and
* not to claim that ozone produces health benefits.

Sharper Image will pay the plaintiffs’ attorneys’ fees up to $1.875 million.

In 2004, Sharper Image sued Consumers Union, publisher of Consumer Reports, with claims of libel and that a negative review of the Ionic Breeze air purifier was false and malicious. Not only was the case dismissed, but Sharper Image was required to pay defense costs.

An article (David Governo, “New Advice: Let the Sellers of Air Cleaners Beware”) appearing in the October 2004 issue of IE Connections, reports several specific investigations and rulings from the Federal Trade Commission, which regulates claims made against companies regarding the products that they sell. The author also contributed to the 2006 “Best and Worst of IAQ” in the December 2006 issue, describing the worst as “ozone generation, chlorine dioxide and other ‘cures’ [that] still have limited applications but apparently endless marketing opportunities.”

The recent settlement and accompanying documents show that the marketing opportunities of ozone-generating air purifiers now do have their limits.

These settlements serve as a warning to other manufactures of air purifiers that may be at risk for litigation due to claims they make. Since false or deceptive advertising can cost a company millions of dollars, it is imperative for companies to analyze their potential for liability and to use careful, precise and accurate language in advertising.

David M. Governo is a partner with Governo Law Firm LLC. Sarah Governo Allar, his daughter, is working as a paralegal at the firm until she begins an international relations internship in Argentina. The firm helps clients in preventing and resolving legal problems including business, environmental and IAQ claims. The firm also advocates for individuals and companies in local and national litigation, and counsels them in business planning, including risk management and regulatory compliance. David Governo can be reached by e-mail at [email protected] or by phone at (617) 737-9047.
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Old 19th Sep 2009, 10:23
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freightdog188:

Thanks for all the info, very enlightening. I'm having second thoughts about investing in a so called "good" negative ionizer which means you have saved me US$878 and that in turn means I owe you one. Thanks once again.
Regards

Prince of Dzun
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Old 19th Sep 2009, 10:46
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I should start calling myself a Respiratory Health Advisor and charge big $$$
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Old 19th Sep 2009, 14:15
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how oout a recommendation for undersink water purifier.. (spelling noted), my wife complains about the taste from some lesser models of purifiers
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Old 19th Sep 2009, 14:34
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Yes IQ is the best. But I wouldn't say the cheaper ones from Fortress do "essentially nothing".

My friend had IQ come and test the air quality in his flat prior to purchasing an IQ. The pollutants in the main living area were around 300000 ppm. However in one of the bedrooms he had a Sharp Hepa/Charcoal unit from Fortress and the reading was around 60000 ppm. I think the IQ ones are guarenteed to get it below 25000 ppm, so they are better, but the Sharp air cleaners significantly improve the air quality at a fraction of the cost.
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Old 19th Sep 2009, 18:37
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It was a Sharp I had but I didn't know those details
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Old 19th Sep 2009, 20:50
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how oout a recommendation for undersink water purifier.. (spelling noted), my wife complains about the taste from some lesser models of purifiers
You actually drinlk the water?
Never do so without a brace of Scotch whisky mixed in...
Canadian is OK as well.
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Old 20th Sep 2009, 02:46
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Prince of Dzun, if you are not a CX A scaler ( settle boys, just joking ), the Sharp, according to a friend of mine who did a lot of research, does a pretty good job and you can have one in each of 2 bedrooms and one in the lounge for less than the price of one IQ. I don't care how good the IQ is, I'm pretty sure it won't clear a 1500sq/ft flat, especially not a multi level one.
The Sharp has 3 different filters and a negative ion feature as well, which can be used seperately ( ie, not on all the time ).
I know the Sharp is'nt as good as the IQ, but I needed at least 3 units and did'nt have a spare 40K, so I figure that having a Sharp in every main living area is better than having one IQ.
Hope this helps
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Old 20th Sep 2009, 22:47
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We had a OSIM LIFE, we used to run ours through the night on a 'clear day' -and all day on a 'normal day'. It had HEPA as well, filter change regularly which were BLACK. (Pretend you want to buy one of their massage chairs - they knocked down the price for us... haha)

Mine works great, the air is super clean ------- although I must say - it is boxed up and in my spare room. ............which is in sunny Brisbane!!!!!!!

Still dont miss tasting the eternal 'mist' - it was the great contributor to permanently relocating my air purifier.



Peace
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Old 21st Sep 2009, 04:41
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For those who recommends Sharp, I'm wondering which model you are referring to? I went to the Hong Kong Sharp website and there are quite of few types of air purifiers available:
1. Ion Generator with High-Density (HD) Plasmacluster Technology
2. Air Purifier with the Plasmacluster Ion System
3. Air Purifier with Humidifying Function

And for those who recommends IQ, where did you buy them?

Thanks for any inputs.
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Old 21st Sep 2009, 04:56
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The IQ is definitely not cheap. I would say that it is well worth it. On the flip side, you can resale the IQ for very near what you pay for it. They regularly go for 7-8K on asiaxpat. There is one distributor in HKG, they are in North Point. Techno-Fabric Engineering, I think. Just google IQ Air HKG. They are expensive, but they certainly do work. All of the hospitals here used them during SARS, and many health facilities have the central filtration systems installed. Well worth it, I believe.
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Old 21st Sep 2009, 05:50
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Filtration technology is very complicated but it mainly comes down to the size of the particle you want to filter out.

Be carefull of the xxx ppm test the salesman does. It is quite meaningless i.t.o pollution because it includes dust and other particles that are not you primary concern.

The best filter you can possibly buy is HEPA.

HEPA filters were developed by US govt during Manahttan project to filter radioactive substances. They are used in laboratories/hospitals mainly against viruses/germs etc. They traditionally filter particles down to a size of 0.3 micrometers.


HOWEVER - The carbon based pollution we are all concerned with is primarily made up out of smaller particles.

The smallest particles, less than 0.1 micrometers (nanoparticles), may be most damaging to the cardiovascular system. There is evidence that particles this small can pass through cell membranes and migrate into other organs, including the brain. It has been suggested that particulate matter can cause similar brain damage as that found in Alzheimer patients.

Particles emitted from modern diesel engines (commonly referred to as Diesel Particulate Matter, or DPM) are typically in the size range of 100 nanometers (0.1 micrometer). In addition, these soot particles also carry carcinogenic components like benzopyrenes adsorbed on their surface. It is becoming increasingly clear that the legislative limits for engines, which are in terms of emitted mass, are not a proper measure of the health hazard

However IQ air claims their filter can filter down to 0.003 micrometer. Which should be sufficient.

Check if the cheaper ones can do that.

Last edited by SIC; 21st Sep 2009 at 06:10.
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Old 29th Sep 2009, 18:18
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Thread necro!!

Was just searching for some obscure info on negative ionisers when came across this thread, thought I would add my 2c.

- Most negative ionisers use high voltage electrodes to produce the ionisation. My understanding of their effect at removing dust etc from the air is that many air particulates are polarised and/or charged particles and will come stick to the electrodes, or simply be attracted to the larger case and stick to that. Of course many will then pick up a charge and fly off elsewhere, perhaps to stick to other surfaces, but it will still have some effect. Think of part the action as adding a continuous static charge to the air, causing aggregation of particulates and forcing them to stick to surfaces.
- Negative ionisers also have a bactericidal/fungicidal effect, although there is debate as to whether this is directly due to the negative ions OR due to ozone produced as a by-product of the high voltages. Bear in mind that the ozone produced is not a lot, relatively for humans that is but not so great for airborne organisms.
- Perhaps most importantly, they also produce a wide range of positive physiological effects. The causes of these are not well understood, if at all, but they are well documented. Studied include memory performance increases, serotonin regulation, stress relief, etc etc on the brain function side, to improved respiratory function, burn treatment, etc on the bodily side (brief summary of some studied effects, are many more)(check pub med archives or google scholar if you dont believe me )

IMO well worth getting negative ionisers going, even if they are not as effective as other devices at the filtration of particulates from the air. A combined mechanical filter/neg ioniser would be the best solution.

But yeah, watch out for the marketing BS....I saw one article published in The Gaurdian (decent UK newspaper) which was basically an advert for a negative ioniser company that claimed their "negative ion particle size" was small enough to enter the body, unlike other devices...what a crock of gauno lol, the ions we are interested in are atomic in scale, nomatter what device you use.

p.s. I'm not affiliated in any way with commercial producers or sellers of negative ions just an interested observer who is in the process of designing/building my own unit.
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Old 29th Sep 2009, 18:56
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p.s. I'm not affiliated in any way with commercial producers or sellers of negative ions just an interested observer who is in the process of designing/building my own unit.
At the rip-off prices most manufacturers charge, building your own is definately the best option.


For those who don't know - ionisers use a very simple repeating Walton Cockroft type of voltage multiplier powered direct from the mains supply. For safety a series of high value resistors (usually 10Megohm) at the output to limit the current at the ioniser needle/s plus of course a low value supply fuse and a wife/- friendly enclosure Anyone handy with a soldering iron can contruct one in a few hours for very little expense - there are plenty of g o o g l e d ioniser circuits out there.
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