Age 65, time to command
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 65
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From: Aus
Age 65, time to command
So now we have age 65 for those who want it, how will this effect the time to command for the poor old FO's. I have been flying with some very unhappy guys of late who have asked me this question. Unfortunately I can't give them an honest answer.
Sadly I can't see any upside for FO's. Lets face it, even without age 65, under the current economic climate the command prospects have been greatly reduced. Couple that with the fact that every old fart in the airline will stay till they drop dead, I'm thinking the average time to command for an FO will be about 15 years. Just a guess.
I wonder what effect this will have when things pick up. CX may find itself very short of FO's. It may become a training ground rather than a career airline.
Sadly I can't see any upside for FO's. Lets face it, even without age 65, under the current economic climate the command prospects have been greatly reduced. Couple that with the fact that every old fart in the airline will stay till they drop dead, I'm thinking the average time to command for an FO will be about 15 years. Just a guess.
I wonder what effect this will have when things pick up. CX may find itself very short of FO's. It may become a training ground rather than a career airline.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 101
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From: A Happy Place
Actually Baywatcher, you may not be too far from the truth. I for one can say that my plans have changed. I no longer delude myself that this is a career airline and plan to get as much out of it as I can. eg An endorsement and a house. After that, time to go. The hope of a command in a reasonable time used to outweigh this view for me, no longer. I am not the only one and anecdotally have talked to many others who are slowly changing their world view.
Sure, I am not under the delusion that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence and everything will be perfect. But, it is hard for it not to be attractive when the grass on your side is brown. Good luck to all of you that stay with this airline until the bitter end. My advice is to get the most out of this that you can, in the end look after your family as they matter more than anything else in this world.
Sure, I am not under the delusion that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence and everything will be perfect. But, it is hard for it not to be attractive when the grass on your side is brown. Good luck to all of you that stay with this airline until the bitter end. My advice is to get the most out of this that you can, in the end look after your family as they matter more than anything else in this world.
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 206
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From: mars
Seems like there are plenty of jobs out there if youre actually looking.... follow the like below, and this is only one site....
Flight Jobs
Etihad also recruiting, if you like sand and quick commands
Flight Jobs
Etihad also recruiting, if you like sand and quick commands
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,103
Likes: 5
From: Chabanais, France
Just curious. Is there anyone who has joined CX in the last twenty years who can put their hand on their heart and honestly say they had no idea that retirement at 65 was already on the way and likely to be implemented well within their working life, despite a contract that said 55? The move to get the age back to the original 65 in the UK has been around a lot longer than that, (late seventies), but by 1989 there was already a world wide but fragmented move to have 65 as the normal retiring age. From my own experience and what I have seen I doubt if many pilots who are over 55 now will go much beyond 60 anyway.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,103
Likes: 5
From: Chabanais, France
routetuner - Name calling doesn't really dignify your post, young man.
I am sixty seven and retired, got caught by the '60 and you are out' regime but would have gone to 62 or 63 on the freighter if it had been possible, obviously I was not with CX.
Yes, you probably are fitter than I am now.
My point is that I do not think that anyone who joined civil aviation within the last twenty years can not have known that retirement age 65, from 'heavies', was very much a target being aimed for by many and virtually certain to happen, particularly since the previous reduction from 65 to 60 by the FAA and the CAA was an arbitrary action and not a decision based on either health or safety.
I am sixty seven and retired, got caught by the '60 and you are out' regime but would have gone to 62 or 63 on the freighter if it had been possible, obviously I was not with CX.
Yes, you probably are fitter than I am now.
My point is that I do not think that anyone who joined civil aviation within the last twenty years can not have known that retirement age 65, from 'heavies', was very much a target being aimed for by many and virtually certain to happen, particularly since the previous reduction from 65 to 60 by the FAA and the CAA was an arbitrary action and not a decision based on either health or safety.
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 335
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From: Asia
Over simplified
parabellum :
I think that you are over simplifying this issue.
It is not simply that we did not see this coming. Rather it is that it has been forced on us with NO compensation. To make matters worse we are being forced to accept this on lesser terms than our current contracts. To be clear we are being asked to take a pay cut, give up three weeks salary, in order to work to 65.
The end result is that most FO/SOs will have to work for free for several years after 55 in order to get back the pay that has been taken.
If you had planned to retire at 55 then you are loosing an enormous amount of money.
If any of this had been addressed then maybe you would have a point. However since you did not work here, and have no idea of the negative impact this has had on the junior crew (including Captains now stuck in Hong Kong until the end of their career), I would suggest that you are not adding anything of value to this discussion.
Cheers
Enjoy your retirement.
I think that you are over simplifying this issue.
It is not simply that we did not see this coming. Rather it is that it has been forced on us with NO compensation. To make matters worse we are being forced to accept this on lesser terms than our current contracts. To be clear we are being asked to take a pay cut, give up three weeks salary, in order to work to 65.
The end result is that most FO/SOs will have to work for free for several years after 55 in order to get back the pay that has been taken.
If you had planned to retire at 55 then you are loosing an enormous amount of money.
If any of this had been addressed then maybe you would have a point. However since you did not work here, and have no idea of the negative impact this has had on the junior crew (including Captains now stuck in Hong Kong until the end of their career), I would suggest that you are not adding anything of value to this discussion.
Cheers
Enjoy your retirement.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,103
Likes: 5
From: Chabanais, France
Yes Five Green and I couldn't agree more!!!
I really had not realised the extent to which you were being expected to pay for RA65, totally unreasonable, so I was seriously over simplifying and I'll refrain from any further comment. Best of luck with your endeavours.
I would suggest that you are not adding anything of value to this discussion.
I really had not realised the extent to which you were being expected to pay for RA65, totally unreasonable, so I was seriously over simplifying and I'll refrain from any further comment. Best of luck with your endeavours.
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 3
From: Arizona USA
Just for the record, several airlines in 1990 were allowing Captains to remain until age 62.
The writing was on the wall for many years.
In fact, age 68 is now being actively considered in some countries.
Fact.
Sorry, the younger guys will just have to wait a little longer.
The writing was on the wall for many years.
In fact, age 68 is now being actively considered in some countries.
Fact.
Sorry, the younger guys will just have to wait a little longer.
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,420
Likes: 1
From: AEP
Another fact to mention about the retirement changed to age 65...
My former airline has increased the hiring age limit from 40 to 45.
Should satisfy those who were unlucky not to qualify when younger.
As usual, there will ALWAYS be unhappy people.
xxx
Happy contrails
My former airline has increased the hiring age limit from 40 to 45.
Should satisfy those who were unlucky not to qualify when younger.
As usual, there will ALWAYS be unhappy people.
xxx
Happy contrails
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 335
Likes: 0
From: Asia
Missing the point.....
Air Profit
I am well aware of many contracts around the world, that have been extended to a older retirement age.
I challange you to find ONE that also forced the younger most negatively affected pilots to take a PAY CUT for the priviledge of working longer and having their commands and basings opportunities moved far into the future.
If the company had done what it did for other employee groups, I would not be as outraged. What they did for other employees was to extend the RA and allow everyone to stay on their, then, current contracts (read Salary).
Cheers
FG
I am well aware of many contracts around the world, that have been extended to a older retirement age.
I challange you to find ONE that also forced the younger most negatively affected pilots to take a PAY CUT for the priviledge of working longer and having their commands and basings opportunities moved far into the future.
If the company had done what it did for other employee groups, I would not be as outraged. What they did for other employees was to extend the RA and allow everyone to stay on their, then, current contracts (read Salary).
Cheers
FG
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,369
Likes: 3
From: UK.
15 years to command? Pretty average for majors.
Many years ago, after leaving GF I met a couple of GF FOs in SIN.
"Two years and no command in sight!" they wailed.
I pointed out that two years was just into the airline.
"But we've been flying before." they retorted.
I smiled.
Many years ago, after leaving GF I met a couple of GF FOs in SIN.
"Two years and no command in sight!" they wailed.
I pointed out that two years was just into the airline.
"But we've been flying before." they retorted.
I smiled.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 743
Likes: 0
From: Hong Kong
it is amazing how many 20' somethings in the airline seem to feel that a widebody command by 31 is their birthright!
NOTE: for the sarcastic doubters, I am a 40-something B-scale passenger captain.
