Rumour - Unpaid Leave for CX Groundstaff
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Rumour - Unpaid Leave for CX Groundstaff
Rumour coming in from the brothers (and sisters) in cargo is that CX will announce unpaid leave for non-essential groundstaff on Tuesday 24/3. 6 weeks unpaid - 1 day a week for 30 weeks...
Bring forth your slings and arrows.
Regards,
N1 Vibes
Bring forth your slings and arrows.
Regards,
N1 Vibes
6 weeks for "non-essential ground staff" so who decides which ground staff are "non-essential"
what's next? non-essential cockpit crew !!!
here's an idea.....get rid of all the "non-essential" extendees first, then come to the AOA, cap in hand, and we'll talk..
In these talks they'll need to PROVE beyond a shadow of a doubt the need for us ALL to take un-paid leave
AND prove ALL managers WILL 1. take un-paid leave and 2. not get the money back via other "special" payments ( back door )
what's next? non-essential cockpit crew !!!
here's an idea.....get rid of all the "non-essential" extendees first, then come to the AOA, cap in hand, and we'll talk..
In these talks they'll need to PROVE beyond a shadow of a doubt the need for us ALL to take un-paid leave
AND prove ALL managers WILL 1. take un-paid leave and 2. not get the money back via other "special" payments ( back door )
Last edited by ACMS; 19th Mar 2009 at 09:39.
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"essential" extendees - There aren't any.
The airline won't be able to cope without them just like any other organisation until the day they aren't there.
And then "remarkably" like every other organisation in the world it will discover that others amazingly are capable of completing the same jobs thought achievable by only a select few of the profession
The airline won't be able to cope without them just like any other organisation until the day they aren't there.
And then "remarkably" like every other organisation in the world it will discover that others amazingly are capable of completing the same jobs thought achievable by only a select few of the profession
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Good one ACMS..
Oh..and only AFTER they get rid off all those KA,Oasis DEC's and recent DEFO's (last in - first out) then, and then only, can management even think of mentioning unpaid leave...
Latest rumour from the FA ranks: all 777-200's to be grounded within weeks,followed by all 747-400's and that will be followed by forced unpaid leave of 1 month for all staff..
Only one small obstacle with that though, and it's called: a union..
Oh..and only AFTER they get rid off all those KA,Oasis DEC's and recent DEFO's (last in - first out) then, and then only, can management even think of mentioning unpaid leave...
Latest rumour from the FA ranks: all 777-200's to be grounded within weeks,followed by all 747-400's and that will be followed by forced unpaid leave of 1 month for all staff..
Only one small obstacle with that though, and it's called: a union..
The ground staff, office staff and Cabin crew are all falling for the company spin, hook line and sinker.
With load factors up at about 77 to 82% and pax numbers around 50,000 per day I don't think we are doing badly enough to justify grounding 25% of the fleet.
Stranger things have happened though.
Anyone extended past 55 should go if times are that tough. Do we really need RF, PW and all the other oldies now? How can we justify keeping them on while the rest of us are forced to suffer a HUGE pay cut? God knows the 150 odd extendees have delayed upgrades long enough and now the young crew members have to suffer a huge pay cut as well.
We can't be that desperate for training captains surely?
The company wants to have it's cake and eat it too. They want to save money NOW but be ready for the next upturn. Well I'm sorry but NO.
If times are tough and we are going down the toilet then the over 55's can go, sorry to be blunt.
With load factors up at about 77 to 82% and pax numbers around 50,000 per day I don't think we are doing badly enough to justify grounding 25% of the fleet.
Stranger things have happened though.
Anyone extended past 55 should go if times are that tough. Do we really need RF, PW and all the other oldies now? How can we justify keeping them on while the rest of us are forced to suffer a HUGE pay cut? God knows the 150 odd extendees have delayed upgrades long enough and now the young crew members have to suffer a huge pay cut as well.
We can't be that desperate for training captains surely?
The company wants to have it's cake and eat it too. They want to save money NOW but be ready for the next upturn. Well I'm sorry but NO.
If times are tough and we are going down the toilet then the over 55's can go, sorry to be blunt.
Last edited by ACMS; 19th Mar 2009 at 15:19.
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WTF
Oh..and only AFTER they get rid off all those KA,Oasis DEC's and recent DEFO's (last in - first out) then, and then only, can management even think of mentioning unpaid leave...
What is it with these comments. We may not like how some ended up in the lifeboat, but there are too many ready to throw out anyone they don't like just so they can get more rations. I'm assuming that people who post comments like these are not in the AOA because destroying someone else will not really protect them in the future either. We should all be looking for a collective solution to these trying times.
CX doesn't have a perfect system, but tell me one airline that does.
I'm not drinking the koolaid here but I'm not going to shove someone under the bus to make myself feel better.
Good Luck to all of us.....
What is it with these comments. We may not like how some ended up in the lifeboat, but there are too many ready to throw out anyone they don't like just so they can get more rations. I'm assuming that people who post comments like these are not in the AOA because destroying someone else will not really protect them in the future either. We should all be looking for a collective solution to these trying times.
CX doesn't have a perfect system, but tell me one airline that does.
I'm not drinking the koolaid here but I'm not going to shove someone under the bus to make myself feel better.
Good Luck to all of us.....
Last edited by joejet; 19th Mar 2009 at 18:22. Reason: addition
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It's obvious that extendees should go first, but when does CX do what makes sense?
Many of the extendees are in the old boys club and will be protected by their mates for the "training" reasons.
I agree with ACMS but at the same time don't think any of his ideas are likely to happen. Been here a while and have seen similar before.......need a strong union and lots of guys won't sign up.
Many of the extendees are in the old boys club and will be protected by their mates for the "training" reasons.
I agree with ACMS but at the same time don't think any of his ideas are likely to happen. Been here a while and have seen similar before.......need a strong union and lots of guys won't sign up.
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ACMS and his "friends":
Sorry...but you lads are about to experience a jolt. If you think CX are going ground aircraft and lay off Captains, so that they can then turn around and waste resources upgrading you guys to take their places....well sorry, you're dreaming.
If paycuts come, and I hope they don't. It will be across the board. So be very careful wishing ill on others....
Sorry...but you lads are about to experience a jolt. If you think CX are going ground aircraft and lay off Captains, so that they can then turn around and waste resources upgrading you guys to take their places....well sorry, you're dreaming.
If paycuts come, and I hope they don't. It will be across the board. So be very careful wishing ill on others....
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I don't think anyone wishes for someone to go through the drama of losing their jobs, but I also don't think anyone is naive enough to accept unpaid leave (totally on a voluntary basis for cockpit crew by the way) unless:
1- As a prerequisite, we see the "real" accounting numbers, proving it to be a necessity (don't hold your breath for that one!).
2- Extendees, which would obviously not be needed anymore if unpaid leave is required, retire.
3- SOs get their bypass pay
4- DECs from other sources than CX or KA leave.
Why would anyone voluntary give away tens of thousands of dollars unless the above conditions are met is a mystery to me. Maybe some are wealthy enough to part with a big chunk of cash without noticing it, but I suspect most will probably be reluctant.
1- As a prerequisite, we see the "real" accounting numbers, proving it to be a necessity (don't hold your breath for that one!).
2- Extendees, which would obviously not be needed anymore if unpaid leave is required, retire.
3- SOs get their bypass pay
4- DECs from other sources than CX or KA leave.
Why would anyone voluntary give away tens of thousands of dollars unless the above conditions are met is a mystery to me. Maybe some are wealthy enough to part with a big chunk of cash without noticing it, but I suspect most will probably be reluctant.
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apple tree yard...
.. and as usual, you don't comment on what's rumoured, but prefer to attack individuals, which makes YOU the idiot here
.. and the rumour has it that announcements will be made within weeks, so you can keep your clothes on for now, don't get too excited yet!!
.. and as usual, you don't comment on what's rumoured, but prefer to attack individuals, which makes YOU the idiot here
.. and the rumour has it that announcements will be made within weeks, so you can keep your clothes on for now, don't get too excited yet!!
Asian airlines worst hit as demand for top cabins falls 23.4%
Posted On: 20 Mar 2009
Airlines are finding it tough to fill first and business class cabins as the global economic downturn continues to hit demand.
Travellers downgrading or just not flying led to so-called premium traffic sliding 16.7 per cent industry-wide in January, compared with the same month last year.
It was the worst showing in more than 20 months, and Asian carriers like Singapore Airlines (SIA) and Cathay Pacific are bearing the brunt of the slump.
The weakest premium travel markets are those associated with this region, according to new data from the International Air Transport Association (IATA), which represents about 230 carriers.
Within Asia, premium traffic fell by a higher-than-average 23.4 per cent. Trans-Pacific premium traffic took a 24.7 per cent hit.
Falling fares and fuel surcharges are also alarming carriers like SIA, which earn almost half of their revenues from top-tier travellers.
A recent American Express survey found business class fares out of Singapore fell 3 per cent in the last three months of last year, compared with the July-September period.
IATA estimates that revenues from premium passengers industry-wide were down at least 25 per cent in January.
The overall drop of 16.7 per cent in the premium segment compares with a 5.9 per cent decline for air traffic across the board.
IATA said: "What started as a financial crisis in the Western economies has now become a manufacturing crisis, hitting the export-dependent economies of Asia hardest."
To survive what has been described as the worst crisis in decades, airlines are taking tough measures, including slashing capacity, parking planes and cutting jobs.
SIA, for one, plans to cut 11 per cent of its total capacity in the next 12 months. But with demand falling at a much faster pace, industry experts have warned of tougher times ahead.
Last month, SIA carried 1.18 million passengers, 20.2 per cent down from the same month a year earlier.
The steep fall came despite a 8.5 per cent cut in capacity.
Across its network, the airline filled just 69.7 per cent of available passenger seats, down 7.1 percentage points from a year earlier.
Cargo volumes also slipped, down by 16.9 per cent to just below 80 million kg, with SIA filling 56.7 per cent of available freight space. This was down 5.5 percentage points from last year.
SIA, which unveiled its performance data yesterday, said: "The prevailing global economic crisis has significantly dampened travel demand, translating to weaker uplifts."
This was in contrast to the performance in February last year, which was supported by the Chinese New Year holiday peak, the Changi Airshow and the additional day in the leap year.
The airline said it will continue to monitor traffic movements and make the adjustments to its route network where necessary to match capacity to demand.
Wires
Posted On: 20 Mar 2009
Airlines are finding it tough to fill first and business class cabins as the global economic downturn continues to hit demand.
Travellers downgrading or just not flying led to so-called premium traffic sliding 16.7 per cent industry-wide in January, compared with the same month last year.
It was the worst showing in more than 20 months, and Asian carriers like Singapore Airlines (SIA) and Cathay Pacific are bearing the brunt of the slump.
The weakest premium travel markets are those associated with this region, according to new data from the International Air Transport Association (IATA), which represents about 230 carriers.
Within Asia, premium traffic fell by a higher-than-average 23.4 per cent. Trans-Pacific premium traffic took a 24.7 per cent hit.
Falling fares and fuel surcharges are also alarming carriers like SIA, which earn almost half of their revenues from top-tier travellers.
A recent American Express survey found business class fares out of Singapore fell 3 per cent in the last three months of last year, compared with the July-September period.
IATA estimates that revenues from premium passengers industry-wide were down at least 25 per cent in January.
The overall drop of 16.7 per cent in the premium segment compares with a 5.9 per cent decline for air traffic across the board.
IATA said: "What started as a financial crisis in the Western economies has now become a manufacturing crisis, hitting the export-dependent economies of Asia hardest."
To survive what has been described as the worst crisis in decades, airlines are taking tough measures, including slashing capacity, parking planes and cutting jobs.
SIA, for one, plans to cut 11 per cent of its total capacity in the next 12 months. But with demand falling at a much faster pace, industry experts have warned of tougher times ahead.
Last month, SIA carried 1.18 million passengers, 20.2 per cent down from the same month a year earlier.
The steep fall came despite a 8.5 per cent cut in capacity.
Across its network, the airline filled just 69.7 per cent of available passenger seats, down 7.1 percentage points from a year earlier.
Cargo volumes also slipped, down by 16.9 per cent to just below 80 million kg, with SIA filling 56.7 per cent of available freight space. This was down 5.5 percentage points from last year.
SIA, which unveiled its performance data yesterday, said: "The prevailing global economic crisis has significantly dampened travel demand, translating to weaker uplifts."
This was in contrast to the performance in February last year, which was supported by the Chinese New Year holiday peak, the Changi Airshow and the additional day in the leap year.
The airline said it will continue to monitor traffic movements and make the adjustments to its route network where necessary to match capacity to demand.
Wires
Last edited by slapfaan; 20th Mar 2009 at 02:12.
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It's always so much fun to draw out the cockpit CEO's and CFO's. I suppose you either take the info you are being fed - or spend your next HKG-JFK whinging about how you would run the company better.....
I guess then in your world - there would be no unpaid leave during an economic crisis - tight?
Or perhaps being so close to the pax, they live behind that door on the flight deck you know, you actually spend your rest periods on-board going round and ask the pax how much they actually paid for the upgraded business class seat....$2,888 London return - making a lot of profit on that ticket then.
Maybe my head is firmly inserted where the sun don't shine - but I guess by following the instructions of the glorious leaders some of us might save a little of the salary bill and therefore still be employed in aviation next year.
But of course when backed by a union - and working for a company that could eventually lose a lot of money - that you personally WILL be treated differently - some advice my friend - GET REAL!!
If there ain't no money in the pot - then heads will roll.
Regards,
N1 Vibes - pointy stick in hand!
I guess then in your world - there would be no unpaid leave during an economic crisis - tight?
Or perhaps being so close to the pax, they live behind that door on the flight deck you know, you actually spend your rest periods on-board going round and ask the pax how much they actually paid for the upgraded business class seat....$2,888 London return - making a lot of profit on that ticket then.
Maybe my head is firmly inserted where the sun don't shine - but I guess by following the instructions of the glorious leaders some of us might save a little of the salary bill and therefore still be employed in aviation next year.
But of course when backed by a union - and working for a company that could eventually lose a lot of money - that you personally WILL be treated differently - some advice my friend - GET REAL!!
If there ain't no money in the pot - then heads will roll.
Regards,
N1 Vibes - pointy stick in hand!
Raven.............wake up mate.
1/ There are plenty of experienced Capatains that could ( if paid correctly ) become training Captains.
2/ There are plenty of S/O's and F/O's with more than enough experience and ability AND desire to be upgraded by those same training Captains.
We don't need MFL, PW, RF or ANY extendees now.
The company created this mess and WE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO TAKE AN 8.33% PAY CUT TO HELP FIX IT.
1/ There are plenty of experienced Capatains that could ( if paid correctly ) become training Captains.
2/ There are plenty of S/O's and F/O's with more than enough experience and ability AND desire to be upgraded by those same training Captains.
We don't need MFL, PW, RF or ANY extendees now.
The company created this mess and WE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO TAKE AN 8.33% PAY CUT TO HELP FIX IT.
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I like how so many are ready to hack off the bottom to get the DEFOs and DECNs from Oasis etc., given that there are a significant number of DESOs and Cadets trying to follow the system properly in that mix right to the bottom. Is this becoming a "eat the young to save them (but mostly us)" scenario? If you are so passionate about this system, then this should propose a significant conundrum. I don't like that those guys from Oasis, BA etc. are here either but the sh*t is in the pudding now. We shouldn't have been allowing those guys to be hired like that in the first place.
So now I think extendees go first. Then we have to share the sh*t pudding and all maybe (read if completely necessary) take some UPL because we allowed this to happen. If it sucks then DONT LET THEM HIRE THROUGH SO MANY EFING DOORS NEXT TIME!!
So now I think extendees go first. Then we have to share the sh*t pudding and all maybe (read if completely necessary) take some UPL because we allowed this to happen. If it sucks then DONT LET THEM HIRE THROUGH SO MANY EFING DOORS NEXT TIME!!
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If there ain't no money in the pot - then heads will roll
(Not saying layoffs are justified just yet. Just saying why we should say NO to UPL)
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You are all in lala land.
The company will rather force all to take 2 months unpaid leave so we can subsidise their extendees that way - and they will be here ready for all the training to be done when the upturn comes. That is the reality. Get out the vaseline - you will be contributing to the survival of the over 55's. The pain will be evenly spread.
The company will rather force all to take 2 months unpaid leave so we can subsidise their extendees that way - and they will be here ready for all the training to be done when the upturn comes. That is the reality. Get out the vaseline - you will be contributing to the survival of the over 55's. The pain will be evenly spread.