CX Annual "Negative Profit"
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Volare.
Taking unpaid leave to save someone in their 20s or 30s, two kids and a mortgage from being laid off - Yes most definitely
Taking unpaid leave to save someone in their 60s, with a full retirement from someplace else - Not a chance
I do agree though, we should offer unpaid leave. Any voluenteers - knock yourself out. But that is all is should be - AN OFFER. Your second statement about being issued with unpaid leave, i.e. forced - see my statement above.
Cider30
Are you saying that you would prefer to see someone loose their job rather than to 1. volunteer 2. Be issued with a months unpaid leave? All of this based on your luxurious position on a seniority list that you, lets face it, would fly in the face of in a SECOND should you yourself be offered a base near home.
Taking unpaid leave to save someone in their 60s, with a full retirement from someplace else - Not a chance
I do agree though, we should offer unpaid leave. Any voluenteers - knock yourself out. But that is all is should be - AN OFFER. Your second statement about being issued with unpaid leave, i.e. forced - see my statement above.
Cider30
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I agree Cider.
However KA guys coming on here trying to stir things up in CX for their own personal vendettas is not on.
We are all in the luxury stage just now of discussing this but I hope if the time comes to anyone being made redundant we have all done our bit to avoid that happening. That includes those DEC's and quote : "someone in their 60s, with a full retirement from someplace else" In short anyone who can afford to take unpaid leave when its offered should! If not then it will be issued and probably before redundancies. That makes better business sense as the cost of future training and recruitment would be much bigger.
It also should include management, should they offer it to us they should accompany it with a statement of how many of them are taking it also.
However KA guys coming on here trying to stir things up in CX for their own personal vendettas is not on.
We are all in the luxury stage just now of discussing this but I hope if the time comes to anyone being made redundant we have all done our bit to avoid that happening. That includes those DEC's and quote : "someone in their 60s, with a full retirement from someplace else" In short anyone who can afford to take unpaid leave when its offered should! If not then it will be issued and probably before redundancies. That makes better business sense as the cost of future training and recruitment would be much bigger.
It also should include management, should they offer it to us they should accompany it with a statement of how many of them are taking it also.
Last edited by volarecantare; 15th Mar 2009 at 14:39.
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Why dont we run down paid leave first? How is it that the bulk of us cant get the leave slots we want, yet they can miraculously find those slots suddenly when it is unpaid? Anyone else had a leave application denied lately? Once there is no more paid leave on the books, then we should be talking about unpaid.
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Once there is no more paid leave on the books, then we should be talking about unpaid.
Before I take ANY forced unpaid leave I require NR and all the 3rd floor managers to show they will 1/ not receive ANY bonus and 2/ they will take the unpaid leave as well. PROOF they will not be making it back another way through some sneeky ex-gratia payment.
Till then I will NOT be taking any un paid leave.
Oh, and they can get rid of the 150 extendees as well.
Till then I will NOT be taking any un paid leave.
Oh, and they can get rid of the 150 extendees as well.
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The airline would better NOT do any profit in 2009, if we are requested to take unpaid leave.
What would be the point to take some if it's to see even a "half-record" profit.
Like TT said, 2008 is behind, and that's when we should have spared some cash and taken our UPL. Oh, wait, we were short of staff... nevermind.
What would be the point to take some if it's to see even a "half-record" profit.
Like TT said, 2008 is behind, and that's when we should have spared some cash and taken our UPL. Oh, wait, we were short of staff... nevermind.
The last time the staff were forced to take unpaid leave (the SARS year), the Directors were rewarded with increased bonuses.
The increased bonus was recorded in the annual report following the SARS event. The savings on forcing the staff to take unpaid leave more than paid for the increased bonuses.
Strangely enough, the recovery in the second half of the SARS' year provided the company with a very healthy profit. So, instead of paying a normal 13th month's pay, the staff were instead, compensated for their unpaid leave.
What one hand giveth, the other taketh away...
The increased bonus was recorded in the annual report following the SARS event. The savings on forcing the staff to take unpaid leave more than paid for the increased bonuses.
Strangely enough, the recovery in the second half of the SARS' year provided the company with a very healthy profit. So, instead of paying a normal 13th month's pay, the staff were instead, compensated for their unpaid leave.
What one hand giveth, the other taketh away...
FlexibleResponse
My recollection of the events of 2003 and the SARS “Special Leave Scheme” was at the end of the year we all got paid for the unpaid leave we took plus two weeks of the 13th month.
My recollection of the events of 2003 and the SARS “Special Leave Scheme” was at the end of the year we all got paid for the unpaid leave we took plus two weeks of the 13th month.
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Well, which ever it was, as long as the managers got fatter paychecks, thats all that matters it would seem. Im sure their efforts were instrumental in discovering the source of the SARS virus. 
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Gents,
Remember most of the directors in the report work for Swires and not Cathay Pacific. Their bonuses are based upon John Swire and Son performance and not single companies, so no matter how well or how badly CX does their bonuses are based on how the private group have made. Also remember that generally their base salaries are less then A scale senior captains and the figure reported includes their housing and other benefits.
Remember most of the directors in the report work for Swires and not Cathay Pacific. Their bonuses are based upon John Swire and Son performance and not single companies, so no matter how well or how badly CX does their bonuses are based on how the private group have made. Also remember that generally their base salaries are less then A scale senior captains and the figure reported includes their housing and other benefits.
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jsshousestaff
I'll reword and finish your final sentence for the removal of confusion....
"Remember that generally their base salaries are less than A Scale Captains; however when Housing, Education, Entertainment, Staff, Car, travel, performance bonus, profit share, share options, loans, tea and coffee, Guaranteed Pension are added in, the package far in exceeds that of an A Scale Captain. When compared to the B-Scale, which is now the more relevant package, the B-scale package would appear as a rounding error on Swire Prince's Tax Return.....
There... that's much better....
"Remember that generally their base salaries are less than A Scale Captains; however when Housing, Education, Entertainment, Staff, Car, travel, performance bonus, profit share, share options, loans, tea and coffee, Guaranteed Pension are added in, the package far in exceeds that of an A Scale Captain. When compared to the B-Scale, which is now the more relevant package, the B-scale package would appear as a rounding error on Swire Prince's Tax Return.....
There... that's much better....
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Me a stirer, haha I'm just stating the facts of life, aviation style.
When you resign from one company(eg KA) and join another (like CX), sh1t can happen, and usually does.
Dont bleat about it. If you become a junior through low seniority, you are exposed, period. But you know the risks, esp when jumping seniority in a legacy carrier to take someones command.
Been at the bottom of a seniority list, but I wouldnt want to be there now. But no doubt senior guys in CX will swallow their seniority and come to the DEc/DEFOs rescue.
How honarable.
When you resign from one company(eg KA) and join another (like CX), sh1t can happen, and usually does.
Dont bleat about it. If you become a junior through low seniority, you are exposed, period. But you know the risks, esp when jumping seniority in a legacy carrier to take someones command.
Been at the bottom of a seniority list, but I wouldnt want to be there now. But no doubt senior guys in CX will swallow their seniority and come to the DEc/DEFOs rescue.
How honarable.
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CX Director?
Although they correctly state that he is the brother of the first HK Chief Executive, the article failed to mention that he was also a director of CX. (maybe he still is, can someone confirm please)
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I do love seeing the "Show me NR's bonus being given back" etc
Have a look out of the window - you are not living in Washington, and Mr Barack Obama is not going to come over the hill on his white charger shouting - "NR Give back the bonus that you embarrassingly received from CX, before putting any downtrodden pilots to suffer unpaid leave!"
You are actually living in HK, and the man 'in charge' of government type things here is called Donald Tsang (the one with a penchant for bow-ties) - he is NOT going to say what Mr Obama would say - he will say "Well done CX executive team - you are protecting HK's glorious economic future for the motherland...."
Regards,
N1 Vibes
Have a look out of the window - you are not living in Washington, and Mr Barack Obama is not going to come over the hill on his white charger shouting - "NR Give back the bonus that you embarrassingly received from CX, before putting any downtrodden pilots to suffer unpaid leave!"
You are actually living in HK, and the man 'in charge' of government type things here is called Donald Tsang (the one with a penchant for bow-ties) - he is NOT going to say what Mr Obama would say - he will say "Well done CX executive team - you are protecting HK's glorious economic future for the motherland...."
Regards,
N1 Vibes
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Trevfly
"Been at the bottom of a seniority list, but I wouldnt want to be there now"
Trev, you do realise son that you will be very soon below all of these as KA is pasted onto the bottom of our CX list. So knock yourself out till then.
How are you doing on your new CX SOP's by the way?
..silly silly boy!
Trev, you do realise son that you will be very soon below all of these as KA is pasted onto the bottom of our CX list. So knock yourself out till then.
How are you doing on your new CX SOP's by the way?
..silly silly boy!
Last edited by volarecantare; 23rd Mar 2009 at 14:36.
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Liam,
Most house staff would love to get a B scale salary, why do you think we lost so many of these guys back a bit earlier this decade, the pay was poor. To quote one of the guys who left, Champagne lifestyle on beer money. If you know any of them left in CX ask to see their JSS pay slip, I know this was done some years ago when a certain FO did not believe how much a Prince earned until the pay slip was shown. We would all like more but look around and smell the grass, been in the US or Europe recently? Not pretty.
Most house staff would love to get a B scale salary, why do you think we lost so many of these guys back a bit earlier this decade, the pay was poor. To quote one of the guys who left, Champagne lifestyle on beer money. If you know any of them left in CX ask to see their JSS pay slip, I know this was done some years ago when a certain FO did not believe how much a Prince earned until the pay slip was shown. We would all like more but look around and smell the grass, been in the US or Europe recently? Not pretty.
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JSSHouseStaff
"If you know any of them left in CX ask to see their JSS pay slip..."
I'll ask you then..... not interested in your basic pay.... total package including bonus, provident fund etc..... thanks... Oh and like for like please: a 10 year experienced Swire Prince to compare with FO's and a 20 year experienced to compare with Captains and a 30 year with STC's.
As aside, I recall when Kim Jong-Phil replaced NR as GMA asking myself, did Phil's total package exceed that of NR's (bear in mind Phil continued to fly to a limited degree)? If it did, why was it attractive to Swire's to use Phil? Perhap's Phil was really a cheaper option.....
PS... whilst I am asking questions; what's the Retirement Age at Swire's?
I'll ask you then..... not interested in your basic pay.... total package including bonus, provident fund etc..... thanks... Oh and like for like please: a 10 year experienced Swire Prince to compare with FO's and a 20 year experienced to compare with Captains and a 30 year with STC's.
As aside, I recall when Kim Jong-Phil replaced NR as GMA asking myself, did Phil's total package exceed that of NR's (bear in mind Phil continued to fly to a limited degree)? If it did, why was it attractive to Swire's to use Phil? Perhap's Phil was really a cheaper option.....
PS... whilst I am asking questions; what's the Retirement Age at Swire's?
Last edited by Liam Gallagher; 24th Mar 2009 at 03:30.
