Novel research
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Novel research
Hello - apologies if this thread should be in the Spotter's corner, but I was hoping some of the HK based pilots might be able to help with research for my new novel. My husband's an airline pilot, and (inevitably - had to happen eventually!) the novel has a strong flight theme.
The book opens on 9/11 - as the Twin Towers fall in New York, the main character is flying from Tokyo to Hong Kong. I believe the time difference is 12 hours? 8.46am New York - 9.46pm Hong Kong/Tokyo? Were any of you flying that night? Which airlines would operate this route? Were passengers alerted in the air about the disaster? In First Class, would they be able to find out by any means if there wasn't a general announcement (what contact would the passengers have with the outside world - in flight phones etc?)
On landing, what was the atmosphere in HK? Was the news relayed in the airport? Were flights grounded? The character needs to travel on to Spain - were there flights to Madrid or Barcelona from HK, or would they transfer?
Many thanks for your time and help - any details about flight schedules, personal experience, atmosphere would be greatly appreciated.
The book opens on 9/11 - as the Twin Towers fall in New York, the main character is flying from Tokyo to Hong Kong. I believe the time difference is 12 hours? 8.46am New York - 9.46pm Hong Kong/Tokyo? Were any of you flying that night? Which airlines would operate this route? Were passengers alerted in the air about the disaster? In First Class, would they be able to find out by any means if there wasn't a general announcement (what contact would the passengers have with the outside world - in flight phones etc?)
On landing, what was the atmosphere in HK? Was the news relayed in the airport? Were flights grounded? The character needs to travel on to Spain - were there flights to Madrid or Barcelona from HK, or would they transfer?
Many thanks for your time and help - any details about flight schedules, personal experience, atmosphere would be greatly appreciated.
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Novel Research
Happy to give you some assistance with your research. May need a couple of days to put it together for you. I will do my best to research the information required and get back to you in the coming days.
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Guardian Angel, time difference New York/Hong Kong is twelve hours, correct.
New York Tokyo is 13 hours. There are no direct flights Hong Kong Barcelona but many possibilities with one stop from Middle East, Istanbul, Europe and UK. I was passengering Sydney Hong Kong on 9/11 and did not know about the Twin Towers disaster until I watched the evening news on TV in Hong Kong. No in flight announcements, Hong Kong airport operations normal, no cancelled flights. Hope this is of help to you. Cheers, HD.
New York Tokyo is 13 hours. There are no direct flights Hong Kong Barcelona but many possibilities with one stop from Middle East, Istanbul, Europe and UK. I was passengering Sydney Hong Kong on 9/11 and did not know about the Twin Towers disaster until I watched the evening news on TV in Hong Kong. No in flight announcements, Hong Kong airport operations normal, no cancelled flights. Hope this is of help to you. Cheers, HD.
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HotDog - thank you, any background information is a big help. I want to get the details correct, and your help is much appreciated. It is amazing how in retrospect it seems like the whole world stopped but a lot carried on as normal depending on where you were ... it's exactly these kind of surprising details that will help get the story right. Many thanks.
ButtieBox - not to worry this is a genuine query. My other half flies 757/767 out of London. He was in the air back on 9/11 - but over Spain in a cessna learning to fly. Part of the reason I want to start the book on 9/11 is because it had such a huge personal impact on our own lives - we put our life's savings, house, everything into training him only to find when he qualified no one was recruiting pilots. It's taken years of hard work and sacrifice to get to where he is now. I can get all the technical info I need from him, but not how it felt to be in the air, how people found out or what the atmosphere on the ground at that specific time in HK was like. Hope that explains things a bit better.
cuin5 - thank you very much. I'd really appreciate any background information and would be pleased to acknowledge any help in the eventual book if people would like that. I'm particularly aware how annoying it is to people who know about these things if I say they are flying west Tokyo/HK/Europe and get the timing of sunrises wrong, or write that there was hysteria in First Class because the passengers found out in the air when nobody could have known. Your help would be invaluable - thank you. Best regards.
ButtieBox - not to worry this is a genuine query. My other half flies 757/767 out of London. He was in the air back on 9/11 - but over Spain in a cessna learning to fly. Part of the reason I want to start the book on 9/11 is because it had such a huge personal impact on our own lives - we put our life's savings, house, everything into training him only to find when he qualified no one was recruiting pilots. It's taken years of hard work and sacrifice to get to where he is now. I can get all the technical info I need from him, but not how it felt to be in the air, how people found out or what the atmosphere on the ground at that specific time in HK was like. Hope that explains things a bit better.
cuin5 - thank you very much. I'd really appreciate any background information and would be pleased to acknowledge any help in the eventual book if people would like that. I'm particularly aware how annoying it is to people who know about these things if I say they are flying west Tokyo/HK/Europe and get the timing of sunrises wrong, or write that there was hysteria in First Class because the passengers found out in the air when nobody could have known. Your help would be invaluable - thank you. Best regards.
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Guardian Angel,
I'd like to thank you for taking the time to do the research.
I don't know how often I have read a book and had something totally
untrue just ruin the whole thing. (even fiction - where it doesn't have too)
I mean how much effort does it take to find Air Canada doesn't operate from Ottawa to Munich or whatever.. and if they did it wouldn't be on B727.. or some sh*t..
- Not that it would to matter to you book, but on 9/11 I was flying 2 US Senators and 3 board members of a diamond mine out of Vancouver to Northern Canada. (Corporate).. We took off @ 6am west coast (just after the first plane).. we were hearing rumblings about "an aircraft hitting the WTC.." most were comparing to the WW2 bomber that hit the Empire State building by accident in the last century.. We blasted off.. and after about an hr something changed. Airspace began to close. We were diverted.
On landing, we were told.
The Senators got us permission to fly back yo YVR on the 12th of Sept.
It was very quiet flying over Vancouver that morning.
We requested "direct" to some intersection and we're told we're the only aircraft in their zone, and could pretty much do what we wanted.. with the CF18's over the straight, we pretty much stuck to plan.
On landing , we were met by black limos and men in dark suits. Last I saw of those gentleman.
I was just happy to be home.
I'd like to thank you for taking the time to do the research.
I don't know how often I have read a book and had something totally
untrue just ruin the whole thing. (even fiction - where it doesn't have too)
I mean how much effort does it take to find Air Canada doesn't operate from Ottawa to Munich or whatever.. and if they did it wouldn't be on B727.. or some sh*t..
- Not that it would to matter to you book, but on 9/11 I was flying 2 US Senators and 3 board members of a diamond mine out of Vancouver to Northern Canada. (Corporate).. We took off @ 6am west coast (just after the first plane).. we were hearing rumblings about "an aircraft hitting the WTC.." most were comparing to the WW2 bomber that hit the Empire State building by accident in the last century.. We blasted off.. and after about an hr something changed. Airspace began to close. We were diverted.
On landing, we were told.
The Senators got us permission to fly back yo YVR on the 12th of Sept.
It was very quiet flying over Vancouver that morning.
We requested "direct" to some intersection and we're told we're the only aircraft in their zone, and could pretty much do what we wanted.. with the CF18's over the straight, we pretty much stuck to plan.
On landing , we were met by black limos and men in dark suits. Last I saw of those gentleman.
I was just happy to be home.
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Thanks AAIGuy - it annoys me too, which is why I always try and get the research right in my books! Your experience is fascinating (those MiB ...). It would be so interesting to know whether the guys on the flight deck, even on the other side of the world, would have known or whether they would have been oblivious. My other half was told while they were in the air, but maybe the radio/info procedure is different for light aircraft vs commercial flights.
CodyBlade - that's an amazing image, planes parked toe to toe. If anyone can tell me whether that was a sight seen round the world I'd love to know ...
CodyBlade - that's an amazing image, planes parked toe to toe. If anyone can tell me whether that was a sight seen round the world I'd love to know ...
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Novel Research
The following (current) flights operate between Narita (NRT) and HKG at the times you have stated for your book: CX505 18.20/22.35, JL 735 18.25/22.30, NH911 (appropriate?) 18.40/22.50. NH911 is code shared with NW11.
The passenger could transfer on arrival in HKG and be flying out to MAD or BCN via a range of places. You cannot fly direct to MAD or BCN however the "most direct" would be via Rome (FCO). Other options would be via London (LHR), Amersterdam (AMS), Paris (CDG) etc.... Let me know if you want to get more specific with timings and locations.
The passenger could have used the inflight phone if it had not been disabled. Other than that there would not be a way of knowing (overhearing a conversation between aircrew/cabin crew but this would be unlikely given the circumstances). In reality the cockpit crew probably would not have heard until they arrived in HKG. Conversations that I have had with people flying in HKG at the time said that they didn't know for sometime after they landed from the flight that they were on.
Let me know if you need any additional info.
The passenger could transfer on arrival in HKG and be flying out to MAD or BCN via a range of places. You cannot fly direct to MAD or BCN however the "most direct" would be via Rome (FCO). Other options would be via London (LHR), Amersterdam (AMS), Paris (CDG) etc.... Let me know if you want to get more specific with timings and locations.
The passenger could have used the inflight phone if it had not been disabled. Other than that there would not be a way of knowing (overhearing a conversation between aircrew/cabin crew but this would be unlikely given the circumstances). In reality the cockpit crew probably would not have heard until they arrived in HKG. Conversations that I have had with people flying in HKG at the time said that they didn't know for sometime after they landed from the flight that they were on.
Let me know if you need any additional info.
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Try this link:
Photos: - Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
As far as I know, Halifax closed one of the two runways to park all those diverted aircraft, as you can imagine, the apron is not capable to cater for such a large amount of traffic. Oh, as a friendly reminder, check with airliners.net and/or Halifax airport management in terms of the copyright (Airliners.net Photo Usage Restrictions). Hope that helps.
Photos: - Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
As far as I know, Halifax closed one of the two runways to park all those diverted aircraft, as you can imagine, the apron is not capable to cater for such a large amount of traffic. Oh, as a friendly reminder, check with airliners.net and/or Halifax airport management in terms of the copyright (Airliners.net Photo Usage Restrictions). Hope that helps.
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Cuin5 wrote "In reality the cockpit crew probably would not have heard until they arrived in HKG." - sorry to rain on his parade, but this was incorrect.
Actually the crew I was with, as did many others, knew there was something untoward unfolding during the early part of our flight back to HK.
On that date, I was leaving the US to fly west across the Pacific. We had just become airborne when the first impact occured.
Air Traffic control started making gradually but increasingly different calls to inbound aircraft. As we were outbound, we were of little consequence, however, those who were coming towards us with the intention of landing in N America, were it appears, being categorized as those who had sufficient fuel to do a 180' and return westbound to land in Japan, or, those who had passed their point of no return and would have to land somewhere on the N American continent.
There was significant lack of understanding by some of the non-native English speaking Asian airlines, who couldn't comprehend or just didn't realise, that when they were told to land in Whitehorse or Fairbanks for example, that it was not a request! The terms in which they communicated to these other flights were becoming increasingly firm.
The other area of co-ordination which I thought was well handled, was the integration of a whole swag of east-bound aircraft being turned back and joining (our) west bound routes, but avoiding confliction at the same time. In general, I'm not a great lover of seppo ATC, but credit where it's due, they played the part that I listened to extremely well, Canadians too eh? but thats expected!
Such occurences are fairly unique, and although that night I never heard anyone on VHF or HF say the reason for the closure of US airspace, it was obviously something of considerable magnitude. Consequently, we were able to do two things. One of them was to tune one of our wireless' to the BBC world service, and the other was to send a "whats goin on?" message via ACARS back to our ops room in HK who were glued to CNN.
The news was confirmed, and a series of protective measures were taken. Additionally, the aspect of informing passengers now or later was also discussed, and it was decided not worry passengers with the news so early on in the flight. as there would be little they could do for the next 9 hours or so. Their access to certain media was also limited.
So there you have it, a mini version of one crews abbreviated observations of the period in question.
Good luck with the book.
Actually the crew I was with, as did many others, knew there was something untoward unfolding during the early part of our flight back to HK.
On that date, I was leaving the US to fly west across the Pacific. We had just become airborne when the first impact occured.
Air Traffic control started making gradually but increasingly different calls to inbound aircraft. As we were outbound, we were of little consequence, however, those who were coming towards us with the intention of landing in N America, were it appears, being categorized as those who had sufficient fuel to do a 180' and return westbound to land in Japan, or, those who had passed their point of no return and would have to land somewhere on the N American continent.
There was significant lack of understanding by some of the non-native English speaking Asian airlines, who couldn't comprehend or just didn't realise, that when they were told to land in Whitehorse or Fairbanks for example, that it was not a request! The terms in which they communicated to these other flights were becoming increasingly firm.
The other area of co-ordination which I thought was well handled, was the integration of a whole swag of east-bound aircraft being turned back and joining (our) west bound routes, but avoiding confliction at the same time. In general, I'm not a great lover of seppo ATC, but credit where it's due, they played the part that I listened to extremely well, Canadians too eh? but thats expected!
Such occurences are fairly unique, and although that night I never heard anyone on VHF or HF say the reason for the closure of US airspace, it was obviously something of considerable magnitude. Consequently, we were able to do two things. One of them was to tune one of our wireless' to the BBC world service, and the other was to send a "whats goin on?" message via ACARS back to our ops room in HK who were glued to CNN.
The news was confirmed, and a series of protective measures were taken. Additionally, the aspect of informing passengers now or later was also discussed, and it was decided not worry passengers with the news so early on in the flight. as there would be little they could do for the next 9 hours or so. Their access to certain media was also limited.
So there you have it, a mini version of one crews abbreviated observations of the period in question.
Good luck with the book.
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cuin5 - thank you, that's a fantastic help. It could work well with the story in terms of a London transfer ...
pa425804 - great image! Thank you.
mephisto88 - thank you, that's given me a real sense of what was going on in the flight decks. I think (particularly as readers will know exactly what was going on), that sense of the character not knowing will be an interesting opening to the book, and give them a vulnerability that readers will respond to - hopefully.
I'll be sure to come back to the forum and let you know when the novel is published - with an acknowledgement for the PPrune Fragrant Harbour pilots! In the meantime if anyone else has comments or experiences from the night, I'd love to hear your thoughts. Thanks to you all again.
pa425804 - great image! Thank you.
mephisto88 - thank you, that's given me a real sense of what was going on in the flight decks. I think (particularly as readers will know exactly what was going on), that sense of the character not knowing will be an interesting opening to the book, and give them a vulnerability that readers will respond to - hopefully.
I'll be sure to come back to the forum and let you know when the novel is published - with an acknowledgement for the PPrune Fragrant Harbour pilots! In the meantime if anyone else has comments or experiences from the night, I'd love to hear your thoughts. Thanks to you all again.
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As I sat at the very back of CX505 that eventful afternoon I realized why the normally retiring,diffident,doe eyed beauty at the check in had smiled so sympathetically at me as she handed me a green boarding pass. Not only had she failed to recognise a VIP and upgrade me as I had requested but she had put me at the last seat in the last row of the aircraft.
When I asked the unsmiling flight attendant for a pen and paper so that I could begin my letter of complaint immediately when events were fresh in my memory she told me she was busy and would get back to me later.She never has.
As the cheap food with its cheap tray was banged down on the folding table which the unsmiling flight attendant had directed me to unfold in terms that made me believe I could not refuse the crash of real cutlery was clear in my ears.
Having glanced up and seen the open doored flight deck in the distance I asked an unsmiling flight attendant if I could visit the flight deck. She promised to get back to me as she said she was busy but would ask the captain later. She never has.
At this point my cheap shoes with the four inch hollow heels were beginning to hurt and it was then that I realized that my swiss army pocket knife. nail clippers, comb, small screwdrivers kit and large bottle of cough mixture had fallen out of my second carry on bag.................
When I asked the unsmiling flight attendant for a pen and paper so that I could begin my letter of complaint immediately when events were fresh in my memory she told me she was busy and would get back to me later.She never has.
As the cheap food with its cheap tray was banged down on the folding table which the unsmiling flight attendant had directed me to unfold in terms that made me believe I could not refuse the crash of real cutlery was clear in my ears.
Having glanced up and seen the open doored flight deck in the distance I asked an unsmiling flight attendant if I could visit the flight deck. She promised to get back to me as she said she was busy but would ask the captain later. She never has.
At this point my cheap shoes with the four inch hollow heels were beginning to hurt and it was then that I realized that my swiss army pocket knife. nail clippers, comb, small screwdrivers kit and large bottle of cough mixture had fallen out of my second carry on bag.................
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Missed vocation?
Mr Q - thank you, it is tempting just to 'cut and paste' to chapter one! But as a seasoned traveller - a girl never wears heels, keeps her Swiss Army knife on her person and only ever has one carry on ... (certainly haven't checked luggage for years - that's what being married to a pilot does for you!) Might I suggest if you ever tire of flying, you have missed your true vocation?
