Union wins age discrimination suit
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Union wins age discrimination suit
London Times: 17 Oct 2008
Rolls Royce loses landmark age discrimination law suit:
'Britain’s biggest union today won what it hailed as a landmark ruling in one of the first cases on age discrimination to be considered by the courts.
A judge in the High Court in London ruled in favour of Unite in a legal dispute with Rolls-Royce over whether long service should be taken into account when selecting workers for redundancy.
The union hailed the ruling as setting a precedent for protecting older workers from redundancy.
Rolls-Royce argued that taking long service into account amounted to unlawful indirect age discrimination against younger employees. The company claimed that part of a long-standing redundancy selection agreement was unlawful in the light of 2006 regulations that outlaw certain types of age or service-related discrimination.
Derek Simpson, Unite joint general secretary, said after the ruling by Sir Thomas Morison: “When an economic downturn bites, older workers often find it harder to find alternative employment when they are made redundant.
“This landmark ruling will give many older workers some extra protection during these difficult times.”
The case arose out of the use of a points-based redundancy selection scheme.
Employees are scored against various criteria, including achievement, self-motivation, expertise and versatility. A point is awarded to each worker for every year of service.
Sir Thomas said Rolls-Royce had contended that the length of service criterion in collective agreements relating to the company’s Derby and Hucknall sites was “unlawful age discrimination which cannot be justified”. The union argued that it was lawful.
Finding for the union, Sir Thomas said: “The criterion of length of service respects the loyalty and experience of the older workforce and protects the older employees from being put onto the labour market at a time when they are particularly likely to find alternative employment hard to find.”
The judge gave Rolls-Royce permission to appeal his ruling saying it was “clearly an important point for both parties”.
David Reade, QC, a barrister at Littleton Chambers, said: "The battleground of age discrimination is justification and this judgment appears to provide significant support for those justifying policies which favour longer serving, and therefore probably older, workers
Seems that the UK based pilots should form a new union affiliation with Unite...
Rolls Royce loses landmark age discrimination law suit:
'Britain’s biggest union today won what it hailed as a landmark ruling in one of the first cases on age discrimination to be considered by the courts.
A judge in the High Court in London ruled in favour of Unite in a legal dispute with Rolls-Royce over whether long service should be taken into account when selecting workers for redundancy.
The union hailed the ruling as setting a precedent for protecting older workers from redundancy.
Rolls-Royce argued that taking long service into account amounted to unlawful indirect age discrimination against younger employees. The company claimed that part of a long-standing redundancy selection agreement was unlawful in the light of 2006 regulations that outlaw certain types of age or service-related discrimination.
Derek Simpson, Unite joint general secretary, said after the ruling by Sir Thomas Morison: “When an economic downturn bites, older workers often find it harder to find alternative employment when they are made redundant.
“This landmark ruling will give many older workers some extra protection during these difficult times.”
The case arose out of the use of a points-based redundancy selection scheme.
Employees are scored against various criteria, including achievement, self-motivation, expertise and versatility. A point is awarded to each worker for every year of service.
Sir Thomas said Rolls-Royce had contended that the length of service criterion in collective agreements relating to the company’s Derby and Hucknall sites was “unlawful age discrimination which cannot be justified”. The union argued that it was lawful.
Finding for the union, Sir Thomas said: “The criterion of length of service respects the loyalty and experience of the older workforce and protects the older employees from being put onto the labour market at a time when they are particularly likely to find alternative employment hard to find.”
The judge gave Rolls-Royce permission to appeal his ruling saying it was “clearly an important point for both parties”.
David Reade, QC, a barrister at Littleton Chambers, said: "The battleground of age discrimination is justification and this judgment appears to provide significant support for those justifying policies which favour longer serving, and therefore probably older, workers
Seems that the UK based pilots should form a new union affiliation with Unite...
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Seems that the UK based pilots should form a new union affiliation with Unite...
You can bet your boots that CX has thought of this already, so don't hold your breath.
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All this really does is underline that our LIFO redundancy policy would probably be found to be lawful in the UK.
As the Judge says,
Which is why we gain an increment every year - to recompense us for our loyalty and experience.
As the Judge says,
The criterion of length of service respects the loyalty and experience of the older workforce
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...awful lot about nothing.
Oh wait...seems that scenario with a union was tried before, and all the good it accomplished was having 49 don't come Monday letters sent out to various folks.
Some folks never learn.
IE: the company have more than likely already thought of the situation and has the pilots right and truly painted into a corner.
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411A . I don't quite understand your obsessive desire to be so negative, particularly in respect of issues that are of no consequence to you and your rather sad life (I know your background, so let's not bother arguing the description ok?). CX is a much different kettle of fish than anything you've experienced, and therefore your opinions are based on nothing more than supposition. Your attitude is curious, and reflects your need to bring down just about everybody in aviation to your level of 'achievement'. Give your cactus a hug, and shuffle off into the sunset...
Actually, all CX and KA pilots based in the UK are employed by UK subsidiaries of those companies and are therefore fully protected by UK and EU employment laws. Whether the companies like it or not.
This is an interesting precedent and a departure from a previous interpretation of the Employment Rights Acts and prior relevant legistlation which presumed that all redundancies had to be seen to be fair, and that last in first out was not necessarily a fair way of deciding who was to be made redundant.
This is an interesting precedent and a departure from a previous interpretation of the Employment Rights Acts and prior relevant legistlation which presumed that all redundancies had to be seen to be fair, and that last in first out was not necessarily a fair way of deciding who was to be made redundant.
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Having worked for airlines in southeast asia long before those who are at CX now, CR, it gives me a rather unique perspective on employee/employer relations in that part of the world.
Many newcomers think they are bright new bulbs in the lamp, and feel they they can change the 'system'.
Unfortunately, the laws in HKG simply do not allow for this, and CX is a HKG-based company.
The company has far more resources at hand, and is likely to fight hammer and tong to keep their advantage.
The 49'ers, unfortunately, found out the hard way.
Perhaps, from the companies perspective, another 49 have to go before these bright news bulbs see the light.
In other words, in HKG, or with a HKG-based company using the laws in HKG to regulate their employment conditions/contracts, bright new bulbs in the lamp have about as much chance of changing the status as the older bulbs...slim and none.
Like it or not....and I'm sure many won't.
While this may appear to be true, the company will still (or can) dismiss at will...all they have to do is fail several pilots in the sim, and presto, gone.
Problems solved.
Pilots have a distinct disadvantage in this situation, and it can become an extremely expensive proposition to counter the companies advantage.
Still, I would expect that a few will just have to find out the hard way.
Bright new bulbs suddenly going dim.
Many newcomers think they are bright new bulbs in the lamp, and feel they they can change the 'system'.
Unfortunately, the laws in HKG simply do not allow for this, and CX is a HKG-based company.
The company has far more resources at hand, and is likely to fight hammer and tong to keep their advantage.
The 49'ers, unfortunately, found out the hard way.
Perhaps, from the companies perspective, another 49 have to go before these bright news bulbs see the light.
In other words, in HKG, or with a HKG-based company using the laws in HKG to regulate their employment conditions/contracts, bright new bulbs in the lamp have about as much chance of changing the status as the older bulbs...slim and none.
Like it or not....and I'm sure many won't.
Actually, all CX and KA pilots based in the UK are employed by UK subsidiaries of those companies and are therefore fully protected by UK and EU employment laws. Whether the companies like it or not.
Problems solved.
Pilots have a distinct disadvantage in this situation, and it can become an extremely expensive proposition to counter the companies advantage.
Still, I would expect that a few will just have to find out the hard way.
Bright new bulbs suddenly going dim.
Last edited by 411A; 18th Oct 2008 at 16:29.
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you haven't replied yet.....
Perhaps you were otherwise occupied.
For those that doubt my knowledge of SE asia, and CX in particular, ask very long serving CX FD crew about Captain Laury K---.
I'm sure some will remember, provided they were in SE asia long enough.
