Should I Quit the HKAOA?
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
From: HK
So what do you propose instead, Lightly salted?
Leave the AOA, and then what???
If you have a better solution, please let us all know.
If you can do any better, don't hold back.
Just curious.
Leave the AOA, and then what???
If you have a better solution, please let us all know.
If you can do any better, don't hold back.
Just curious.
Last edited by anotherbusdriver; 8th July 2008 at 18:55.
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 136
Likes: 0
From: In your mind.
I think lightlysalted has the right idea, but I think getting together requires a group. And it seems the AOA is by far the easiest way to do that. I think the easiest way to do that is to have "mandatory" union dues. (Not to make anyone choke!) Of course you can't force people to join a union but here's the way i've seen it before: a pilot can elect to not join the union, but he/she will still pay dues. They just pay less, say 2/3. I know not all would agree, but it would make the union stronger as both the numbers become more acceptable and the money needed for bargaining would be available. I mean they negotiate (well or poorly) for you anyway. Seems fair to me.
I think lightlysalted's points are important if not necessary. Easier as a group but should be done anyway.
I think lightlysalted's points are important if not necessary. Easier as a group but should be done anyway.
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
From: Nez Zealand
Sorry - Am I Missing something?
If you leave the AOA/ non member?
Who negotiates your contract?
IluvPX - Please tell me??
Do you do it?
pathetic
If you leave the AOA/ non member?
Who negotiates your contract?
IluvPX - Please tell me??
Do you do it?
pathetic
Last edited by Jack57; 9th July 2008 at 05:00. Reason: hate to offend the cheap #^%&%
Joined: Jul 2007
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 1,953
Likes: 172
From: with the ex-CX pond scum (a zoologist was once head of Flight Ops)
Three days after each roster comes out, I usually find I have a whole lot of new friends who want my jump seat, often accompanied by very convivial Groupwise messages that include the word 'mate' etc.
Many of these applicants are commuters. A subset of these are 'passengers' in the industrial sense of the word, as non-members of the HKAOA they are riding on the backs of those who are paying the dues and at least attempting to protect our contract.
My policy is that non-HKAOA jumpseat applicants should be given lower priority for jump seats, as what they save by not paying dues can be spent on the appropropriate full fare ticket. Fair enough?
Many of these applicants are commuters. A subset of these are 'passengers' in the industrial sense of the word, as non-members of the HKAOA they are riding on the backs of those who are paying the dues and at least attempting to protect our contract.
My policy is that non-HKAOA jumpseat applicants should be given lower priority for jump seats, as what they save by not paying dues can be spent on the appropropriate full fare ticket. Fair enough?
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 273
Likes: 1
From: Brisvegas
As much as Captain Dart's post goes against the grain for most of us - pressuring collegues into joining (or making life hard for them for not joining) is how most well organised trade unions operate. 
I believe in it and I think it's worth thinking about.
I believe in it and I think it's worth thinking about.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,124
Likes: 16
From: GC Paradise
So as far as I can see the AOA is useless. And I just can't see the point of paying for something that is useless.
Can someone please remind me why I shouldn't quit because I've lost my faith.
Can someone please remind me why I shouldn't quit because I've lost my faith.
Some of our newer youngsters have no idea of the history involving very deep !!!! they could be in following any accident in some of the, shall we say, developing countries. Innocence has nothing whatsoever to do with their likely prolonged incarceration and treatment.
Just that aspect alone, covers the premiums that one pays to the HKAOA.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,124
Likes: 16
From: GC Paradise
Oops!
Someone has had his button pushed...and his level of discomfort has gone right up!
Think it through thoroughly...review recent and ancient crash history including the Malaysian crash on T/O TPE and even the China Airlines crash on 25L HKG. Note what happened to the crews and go make the right decision for yourself...and especially for your family.
Someone has had his button pushed...and his level of discomfort has gone right up!
Think it through thoroughly...review recent and ancient crash history including the Malaysian crash on T/O TPE and even the China Airlines crash on 25L HKG. Note what happened to the crews and go make the right decision for yourself...and especially for your family.
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
From: BC
Flex, you must also buy lottery tickets.
Being in the AOA for "legal" protection for the 1 in a BILLION chance you have an incident in a developing country and survive, is a sad selling point. You are better off taking your dues to Macau.
Plus, who is going to defend you? Your Cousin Vinny on their O day? There are no professionals in the AOA, its just a rag tag group of volunteers trying to play grown up corporate negotiators (NC excluded). There performance over the last decade shows how amateurish they really are.
Being in the AOA for "legal" protection for the 1 in a BILLION chance you have an incident in a developing country and survive, is a sad selling point. You are better off taking your dues to Macau.
Plus, who is going to defend you? Your Cousin Vinny on their O day? There are no professionals in the AOA, its just a rag tag group of volunteers trying to play grown up corporate negotiators (NC excluded). There performance over the last decade shows how amateurish they really are.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,124
Likes: 16
From: GC Paradise
Check the history of real accidents and you might be somewhat surprised with what was achieved by IFALPA...that includes some rather proactive action by your local representative Union of IFALPA.
If you want to play the odds...well that is your personal call...best of luck...oh, can you say hello to Schapelle for me?
If you want to play the odds...well that is your personal call...best of luck...oh, can you say hello to Schapelle for me?
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
From: BC
I did a historical search for "real", and fake, accidents at CX, and found no evidence that being a member of AOA has helped at all. As a matter of fact ive found no accidents involving CX aircraft in developing countries where legal help was required.
I did however, find many examples where legal protection was needed by members and it was either not provided by the AOA or it was substandard. Just ask the 49's to start. The LOL insurance provided by the AOA isnt worth the paper its scribbled on. I have a couple friends fighting through mounds of paperwork every week to get what they deserve, still nothing.
So next time youre out buying snake oil, say hi to Chicken Little for me!
I did however, find many examples where legal protection was needed by members and it was either not provided by the AOA or it was substandard. Just ask the 49's to start. The LOL insurance provided by the AOA isnt worth the paper its scribbled on. I have a couple friends fighting through mounds of paperwork every week to get what they deserve, still nothing.
So next time youre out buying snake oil, say hi to Chicken Little for me!
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,124
Likes: 16
From: GC Paradise
I did a historical search for "real", and fake, accidents at CX, and found no evidence that being a member of AOA has helped at all.
However, I feel my words were purposely manipulated to suit the personal agenda of a sad and opinionated human being. In which case it would seem to be rather pointless to further discuss the issue.
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 651
Likes: 0
From: Hong Kong
Dead horse being flogged again.....but.....
I still believe it is easier to reinvigorate and redirect the AOA than it is sit outside and throw stones. DPA works for Dragonair pilots....CPU for the 49ers...the answer is within, not without!
I still believe it is easier to reinvigorate and redirect the AOA than it is sit outside and throw stones. DPA works for Dragonair pilots....CPU for the 49ers...the answer is within, not without!
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 157
Likes: 3
From: uk
The AOA is only as strong as the backbone of the members ,I have seen that weakness displayed time after time.
Until all of you in the AOA are prepared to take an uncomfortable stance and I mean truly committed to do what ever it takes you will never achieve anything .
Why do you think the company listens when the girls threaten, because they know that they will probably do what they are threatening to do .
With us it's all puff and wind and the company knows it ,
BUT if everyone was prepared to walk and the company knew it : trust me things would get sorted very quickly because it would be too expensive to fire everyone and retrain new pilots .
Ed Rod... Always said that the company would continue to push until the pilots pushed back
Until all of you in the AOA are prepared to take an uncomfortable stance and I mean truly committed to do what ever it takes you will never achieve anything .
Why do you think the company listens when the girls threaten, because they know that they will probably do what they are threatening to do .
With us it's all puff and wind and the company knows it ,
BUT if everyone was prepared to walk and the company knew it : trust me things would get sorted very quickly because it would be too expensive to fire everyone and retrain new pilots .
Ed Rod... Always said that the company would continue to push until the pilots pushed back