CX Direct Entry Capt
Join Date: Jan 2008
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I'm stunned. Just an observer no affiliation with CX but why in the world hire captains off the street? Are there not a suitable pool of F/O's with operational experience & qualification to become a commander?
Surely it would make more sense to upgrade and replace F/O's than it would to inject outsiders into leadership roles of which they have minimal experience. In fact, what this probably reveals is an impending lack of interest in the pilot profession altogether.
It would be wiser to entice "outsiders" into F/O & S/O positions with increased pay & benefits respectively.
Surely it would make more sense to upgrade and replace F/O's than it would to inject outsiders into leadership roles of which they have minimal experience. In fact, what this probably reveals is an impending lack of interest in the pilot profession altogether.
It would be wiser to entice "outsiders" into F/O & S/O positions with increased pay & benefits respectively.
Join Date: Jul 2000
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Capitalism
These DEC positions are on the freighter which is a lower pay than HK based F/Os on the pax fleet, it's just one of the ways CX divides and conquers its aircrew.
These DEC positions are on the freighter which is a lower pay than HK based F/Os on the pax fleet, it's just one of the ways CX divides and conquers its aircrew.
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Ok, latest update: very reassuring to hear that all direct entry captain positions are available to existing crew. Oh but wait, you will have to take a huge pay cut if you want one and go on local terms!
In my view, those positions are not available at all to any current officers if the only way to get the captain's position is to almost pay for it by giving away your benefits!!
In my view, those positions are not available at all to any current officers if the only way to get the captain's position is to almost pay for it by giving away your benefits!!
Join Date: Jun 2006
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OK Now I am pissed
You have got to be kidding. It would be bad enough if the CO. was sliding them in as Rapid commands but this is ASL ALL OVER
To take commands out of the system and then change the COS to them specifically is outrageous.
I am off to keep phoning someone to do something, .........
FG
To take commands out of the system and then change the COS to them specifically is outrageous.
I am off to keep phoning someone to do something, .........
FG
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We have got to get freighter pay up to pax pay, that's the only way to stop our COS sliding towards local conditions, which is happening now, before our very eyes
The company is not going to pay bypass pay it keeps us squabbling, they like the status quo, and lets them continue to erode our conditions. I bet even if we gave up bypass pay (just for this cause) to bring freight pay up to pax, CX would find a way not to. It would actually unite the crew as opposed divide. Then go on to get better COS!
The company is not going to pay bypass pay it keeps us squabbling, they like the status quo, and lets them continue to erode our conditions. I bet even if we gave up bypass pay (just for this cause) to bring freight pay up to pax, CX would find a way not to. It would actually unite the crew as opposed divide. Then go on to get better COS!
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Join Date: Dec 2000
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KJP you have got to be kidding! If someone wins a bid and gets a 400F command in SYD awarded why does a DEC with a HKG base get priority for the command? You decided to award the spots on those bases...oh wait, that was only because of the CX screw-up with ASL!
I say choke on it KJP, who ever is awarded a Command base slot should be also awarded the command course in seniority regardless of base. Remember, that was your fault.
I say choke on it KJP, who ever is awarded a Command base slot should be also awarded the command course in seniority regardless of base. Remember, that was your fault.
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Aren't DEC specifically not allowed in our COS?? Aren't DEC illegal with regards to our contracts?? Why don't the AOA defend at least our very minimum career protection?? Can't be that hard to win that one in courts!!
The shortages of crew on the freighter is due to the poor conditions offered. The solution isn't to disregard our legal COS and hire DEC, but to bring improvements to make them more attractive. But maybe I'm a dreamer.
They may have lots of command training planned for the next 2-3 years (many of those on the freighter), but with DEC now happening it doesn't mean much. And if you add RA65 to the equation, forget about having a career progression
The shortages of crew on the freighter is due to the poor conditions offered. The solution isn't to disregard our legal COS and hire DEC, but to bring improvements to make them more attractive. But maybe I'm a dreamer.
They may have lots of command training planned for the next 2-3 years (many of those on the freighter), but with DEC now happening it doesn't mean much. And if you add RA65 to the equation, forget about having a career progression
Join Date: Nov 2005
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AM I just dumb or will these guys all transfer to the Pax fleet eventually and therefore by default hold the rest of us back from promotion?????
AM I just stupid ? Do I not have a clear understanding of the contracts? Or do every single DEFO and DE Captain essentially take a course off somebody else in line. Even though they are all on the freighter - they can all eventually transfer to the Pax fleet and therefore they have jumped the line and all of us are held back.
Please tell me I am dumb and this is not the case?
AM I just stupid ? Do I not have a clear understanding of the contracts? Or do every single DEFO and DE Captain essentially take a course off somebody else in line. Even though they are all on the freighter - they can all eventually transfer to the Pax fleet and therefore they have jumped the line and all of us are held back.
Please tell me I am dumb and this is not the case?
Last edited by SIC; 28th May 2008 at 07:33. Reason: So I don't get flamed for spelling as well as for being dumb!
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Exactly how many guys whingeing about the ex- OA guys have put their hands up for one of these commands? The package is derisory, but if you want to fly a shiny brand new -400F in the LH seat right away the position is indeed available should you so desire, just pop in and see KJP and you'll be on the next course I assure you.
Those whingeing should see the irony in that the CX Terms and Conditions became worthless the moment the first 'B' scaler signed on the dotted line to undermine CX 'A' scale T&C, this has continued with ASL, 'C' scales 'D' scales and now 'O' scales.
The company reserves the right to recruit crew on new terms and conditions as it sees fit, and as long as there are guys who will turn up for the (increasingly awful) T&C it's just tough titty on those before them. As I say, if you want your command out of seniority, just accept the latest T&C downgrade, KJPs door is always open.......
Those whingeing should see the irony in that the CX Terms and Conditions became worthless the moment the first 'B' scaler signed on the dotted line to undermine CX 'A' scale T&C, this has continued with ASL, 'C' scales 'D' scales and now 'O' scales.
The company reserves the right to recruit crew on new terms and conditions as it sees fit, and as long as there are guys who will turn up for the (increasingly awful) T&C it's just tough titty on those before them. As I say, if you want your command out of seniority, just accept the latest T&C downgrade, KJPs door is always open.......
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Kitsune, What kind of illusionary drugs are you on? There is a list over a page long of guys waiting for a course. Many are already Cat A! I know of several who have been told "not a chance this year". But keep on telling yourself the path is open for those already in CX...unfortunately a few will believe it.
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Kitsune, there's over a thousand FO here and you really think none are interested in freighter commands??
Do you also believe that those DEC are for the freighter only?? Remember that both fleets are now united. What exactly prevents them from using a DEC on the pax fleet in a year or some other future time??
And DEC are specifically not permitted in our COS. It's getting worse by the month. Can't wait for the AOA's election to be over. Hopefully we'll see some changes in direction
Do you also believe that those DEC are for the freighter only?? Remember that both fleets are now united. What exactly prevents them from using a DEC on the pax fleet in a year or some other future time??
And DEC are specifically not permitted in our COS. It's getting worse by the month. Can't wait for the AOA's election to be over. Hopefully we'll see some changes in direction
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Kitsune,
So DEC hiring to HKG is OK because no one else will accept "O" scale? So why don't we create a new COS for LHR Captains at 50% of "B" scale salary. No one currently employed with CX will take it and then CX can recruit DEC's. Is that your logic? Who are you ... KJP?
So DEC hiring to HKG is OK because no one else will accept "O" scale? So why don't we create a new COS for LHR Captains at 50% of "B" scale salary. No one currently employed with CX will take it and then CX can recruit DEC's. Is that your logic? Who are you ... KJP?
Join Date: Jan 2006
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He shoots....he scores!!
You say it was the 'A' scalers fault that 'B' scales were introduced...... we faced a company determined on expansion who said: "We're changing the contract for new joiners, we have a thousand 'dudes' desperate to sign up right now, in fact we've already signed the first course up.... whatcha gonna do about it?"
How is our response different to YOUR response to ASL/C scales/contracts in the mailbox/the 49ers/D scales, and now 'O' scales?
You say it was the 'A' scalers fault that 'B' scales were introduced...... we faced a company determined on expansion who said: "We're changing the contract for new joiners, we have a thousand 'dudes' desperate to sign up right now, in fact we've already signed the first course up.... whatcha gonna do about it?"
How is our response different to YOUR response to ASL/C scales/contracts in the mailbox/the 49ers/D scales, and now 'O' scales?
Join Date: Apr 2006
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gents, with all respect, but you are doing exactly what management wants us to do : start fighting with ourselves instead with the enemy.
let's stay united, forget that a vs b scale bullsh*t, amen.
let's stay united, forget that a vs b scale bullsh*t, amen.
Join Date: Oct 2007
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What do you suggest for the 49ers?
:gents, with all respect, but you are doing exactly what management wants :us to do : start fighting with ourselves instead with the enemy.
:let's stay united
Good plan. What do you suggest for the 49ers?
:let's stay united
Good plan. What do you suggest for the 49ers?