CX - Anything good?!
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CX - Anything good?!
Theres so many negative threads by people that seem completely disillusioned and sick of CX and Hong Kong! Maybe you could help us wannabes (and, with all due respect, yourselves) by reflecting on some of the things you enjoy about living in Hong Kong? Experiences you love of flying? Lifestyle made possible by being with a major carrier like Cathay?....
As a wannabe waiting to apply to Cathay's cadet programe next year (finally finish with school!) I was hoping some of you experienced pilots could list some of the positives?
Anything positive would be cool to hear about but please DON'T hijack this thread with complaints coz we've read them all elsewhere.
As a wannabe waiting to apply to Cathay's cadet programe next year (finally finish with school!) I was hoping some of you experienced pilots could list some of the positives?
Anything positive would be cool to hear about but please DON'T hijack this thread with complaints coz we've read them all elsewhere.
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Led,
I guess it does start to get boring when all you hear are guys and gals telling you all the bad stuff that is going on, however, i think if you goto any airline only hearing the positives then you cant get a real good idea of what its like in that carrier and sure most of the posters here are just a small percentage of the total workforce but its the same with all the threads from any airline.
I have been here for 10years with CX, i have had some good times i must say but they are becoming far and few. CX has a great name for it, makes alot of money, the jets we are flying are not too old, however, if you look at the airbus and 747 fleet, they are really getting on now. I have been flying the bus since i joined and you get to fly with alot of really great people.
Not much else i can say for the positives unfortunately, and this is the where you get a lot of guys saying how bad it is up here. If your wanting to become a cadet, then i assume you have been to hong kong and know what life is like here. The cadet course is a great way to get into the industry without having to do all the years of hard work that most of us had to do and good luck to you.
CX once upon a time was the a great airline however it is slowly becoming just "another" airline. Think hard and read threads, and dont become single minded in that you only want to read what the happy guys want to say, if you do that your not getting the whole picture and when you do end up coming here and working here you will be dissappointed.
all the best
I guess it does start to get boring when all you hear are guys and gals telling you all the bad stuff that is going on, however, i think if you goto any airline only hearing the positives then you cant get a real good idea of what its like in that carrier and sure most of the posters here are just a small percentage of the total workforce but its the same with all the threads from any airline.
I have been here for 10years with CX, i have had some good times i must say but they are becoming far and few. CX has a great name for it, makes alot of money, the jets we are flying are not too old, however, if you look at the airbus and 747 fleet, they are really getting on now. I have been flying the bus since i joined and you get to fly with alot of really great people.
Not much else i can say for the positives unfortunately, and this is the where you get a lot of guys saying how bad it is up here. If your wanting to become a cadet, then i assume you have been to hong kong and know what life is like here. The cadet course is a great way to get into the industry without having to do all the years of hard work that most of us had to do and good luck to you.
CX once upon a time was the a great airline however it is slowly becoming just "another" airline. Think hard and read threads, and dont become single minded in that you only want to read what the happy guys want to say, if you do that your not getting the whole picture and when you do end up coming here and working here you will be dissappointed.
all the best
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Led Goose
How positive guys are is normally directly related with how long they have been here.
Know this:
CX is still one of the better employers out there. I for one have not forgotten the much worse people/companies I ( and most others ) prostituted ourselves for in order to get into a major airline. You can easily do worse than CX.
The fact is that flying as a career is less and less valued everywhere and management will take rather than give everywhere. CX unfortunately is now threatening our career progression more than ever and that's why guys are unhappy.
The even unhappier pilots are the guys who are 45 and still working for a crappy second rate outfit in the outback/Irak/Canadian North - they regret never getting into the relative comfort of a major company.
Hong Kong is great and crap at the same time - depends what floats your boat. Keep in mind as a cadet you will not get expat allowances - which is about the only thing that still makes living to an acceptable standard possible here. So you will enjoy a living standard well below that and might not enjoy that. The fact that you will take many years to upgrade to a decent payscale will not help. At Easyjet you could be a captain by age 27. Its not all about getting a command - its about the $$$ it brings and the standard of living you and your family can have.
On the positive side when you are young seeing the world and living in Asia is certainly an adventure.
The majority at CX are happy with their job - and at the same time very very concerned about their future earnings due to salaries not keeping up with inflation/ exchange rates and time to upgrades ( more $$$ ) slowing down considerably.
How positive guys are is normally directly related with how long they have been here.
Know this:
CX is still one of the better employers out there. I for one have not forgotten the much worse people/companies I ( and most others ) prostituted ourselves for in order to get into a major airline. You can easily do worse than CX.
The fact is that flying as a career is less and less valued everywhere and management will take rather than give everywhere. CX unfortunately is now threatening our career progression more than ever and that's why guys are unhappy.
The even unhappier pilots are the guys who are 45 and still working for a crappy second rate outfit in the outback/Irak/Canadian North - they regret never getting into the relative comfort of a major company.
Hong Kong is great and crap at the same time - depends what floats your boat. Keep in mind as a cadet you will not get expat allowances - which is about the only thing that still makes living to an acceptable standard possible here. So you will enjoy a living standard well below that and might not enjoy that. The fact that you will take many years to upgrade to a decent payscale will not help. At Easyjet you could be a captain by age 27. Its not all about getting a command - its about the $$$ it brings and the standard of living you and your family can have.
On the positive side when you are young seeing the world and living in Asia is certainly an adventure.
The majority at CX are happy with their job - and at the same time very very concerned about their future earnings due to salaries not keeping up with inflation/ exchange rates and time to upgrades ( more $$$ ) slowing down considerably.
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Well Missingblade, with that post I just decided on my survey answers. If you don’t have it, good luck with that upgrade.
Where can I sign up to work G days? Do I just call crew control and volunteer?
Where can I sign up to work G days? Do I just call crew control and volunteer?
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Good things:
1) Many different career options... based PAX FO living in country of choice, or come to HK and have company pay you a house, or perhaps try for an early command on the freighter.
2) Whereas in most airlines you basically have to live in the airline's base (EK) or at least in the same country, in CX you can live in a number of bases in a number of countries/continents... and on top of it all they are quite open to the idea of commuting (provided you pitch up to work on time!)
3)... uhm, er... well, those are the main good points for me.
Bad things:
Just give this forum a good read... although there are a lot of moaners out there, there are a lot of genuine concerns in CX right now... choose carefully as CX is NOT for everyone.
incomiiiiing
1) Many different career options... based PAX FO living in country of choice, or come to HK and have company pay you a house, or perhaps try for an early command on the freighter.
2) Whereas in most airlines you basically have to live in the airline's base (EK) or at least in the same country, in CX you can live in a number of bases in a number of countries/continents... and on top of it all they are quite open to the idea of commuting (provided you pitch up to work on time!)
3)... uhm, er... well, those are the main good points for me.
Bad things:
Just give this forum a good read... although there are a lot of moaners out there, there are a lot of genuine concerns in CX right now... choose carefully as CX is NOT for everyone.
incomiiiiing
Last edited by main_dog; 22nd Mar 2008 at 09:57.
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Thanks a lot for all the replies especially Azamat, Missing Blade and Main Dog. I really appreciate you guys taking time to post on this thread. I've read about all the problems at CX with management, co. culture, rostering, pay scales etc. all affecting morale (Long time reader, first time poster!)
Reading some posts it seems like a lot of airline pilots are truly demoralised... and it makes me kind of sad cause its been my dream to fly aircraft since I can ever remember and I want to make it happen. Not that CX is the only option but to me but it seems the least risky.
It just strikes me that even with all the big issues, there arent hundreds quitting so there must be some things CX pilots still love about flying and being in HK that they stay for? There must still be really enjoyable things about pilot life?!
Reading some posts it seems like a lot of airline pilots are truly demoralised... and it makes me kind of sad cause its been my dream to fly aircraft since I can ever remember and I want to make it happen. Not that CX is the only option but to me but it seems the least risky.
It just strikes me that even with all the big issues, there arent hundreds quitting so there must be some things CX pilots still love about flying and being in HK that they stay for? There must still be really enjoyable things about pilot life?!
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People generally don't quit for two reasons:
1. Seniority. You go somewhere else you are back at the bottom.
2. Major airlines like CX, BA, etc etc all offer similar packages these days. The 5 or 10 % more pay at another company is just not worth swopping one set of problems for another.
Reality is that once you get to a big jet your flying days are over. Almost everybody here enjoyed flying before they got to the airline. What we enjoy now is going to work as little as possible. We enjoy the company of our fellow pilots - mostly. We enjoy not being tied to a desk. We enjoy the satisfaction of a flight well done in sometimes trying conditions. But we don't enjoy much flying anymore.
1. Seniority. You go somewhere else you are back at the bottom.
2. Major airlines like CX, BA, etc etc all offer similar packages these days. The 5 or 10 % more pay at another company is just not worth swopping one set of problems for another.
Reality is that once you get to a big jet your flying days are over. Almost everybody here enjoyed flying before they got to the airline. What we enjoy now is going to work as little as possible. We enjoy the company of our fellow pilots - mostly. We enjoy not being tied to a desk. We enjoy the satisfaction of a flight well done in sometimes trying conditions. But we don't enjoy much flying anymore.
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Led Goose,
I completely agree with missingblade's comment "once you get to a big jet, your flying days are over".
I'd suggest you go and fly something enjoyable for 5 or 10 years before coming to the airlines, or if you join early, hopefully you'll have enough money to fly on your days off.
Most guys at Cathay are here for the money and days off......the 'flying' has long gone out of the airline job. Pardon the philosophy lesson, but the reason most love 'flying' is for things like....the rapid decision making, the feeling of freedom, sinking into the seat during a tight turn, the feeling of speed as you rush past cloud, the satisfaction when you arrive on target on time, etc, etc, etc, etc. I don't think you will be able to satisfy this in an airline job.....certainly not with Cathay. (Maybe a regional or a small 737-type outfit still gives enough freedom to regularly enjoy the flying.)
Cathay (and I'm sure most airlines) flying is all about safety.....keeping automatics in for as long as possible to make it as safe and smooth as possible.
Anyways, good luck. (Don't sell yourself short by kidding yourself that 35 years in an airline job is a great 'flying' career!)
lmh
I completely agree with missingblade's comment "once you get to a big jet, your flying days are over".
I'd suggest you go and fly something enjoyable for 5 or 10 years before coming to the airlines, or if you join early, hopefully you'll have enough money to fly on your days off.
Most guys at Cathay are here for the money and days off......the 'flying' has long gone out of the airline job. Pardon the philosophy lesson, but the reason most love 'flying' is for things like....the rapid decision making, the feeling of freedom, sinking into the seat during a tight turn, the feeling of speed as you rush past cloud, the satisfaction when you arrive on target on time, etc, etc, etc, etc. I don't think you will be able to satisfy this in an airline job.....certainly not with Cathay. (Maybe a regional or a small 737-type outfit still gives enough freedom to regularly enjoy the flying.)
Cathay (and I'm sure most airlines) flying is all about safety.....keeping automatics in for as long as possible to make it as safe and smooth as possible.
Anyways, good luck. (Don't sell yourself short by kidding yourself that 35 years in an airline job is a great 'flying' career!)
lmh
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Missing Bade, Luvmuhud, thanks so much for your comments and points. The enjoyment of flying is something I've thought about a lot (Things like your examples Missing Blade). I've had quite a few lessons and know I love flying but the job of an airline pilot is to make each flight as uneventful as possible! And (my limited understanding is that) automation has taken out almost all the fun.
My dream is to (eventually!) set up a flying company of some sort - tourist flights....aerobatic experience flights! Not sure exactly what but thats my true dream! But Im sure with the state of GA, oil prices, the global economy etc I'll need to come up with a pretty clever business plan if Im to scrape a living from it!
There's a lot of PPruners who sound trapped on the seniority ladder but, unfortunately, I rarely see anyone talking about careers after airlines. I want to finish my degree so I have a fall back.
Do you guys still fly in your spare time? Do you ever think about going biz jet or back to GA with some supplementary income from something else?
Do you think the problems of poor career progression and undervaluing of airline pilots will improve again in the long term? or is it simply a case of Fares down, costs up, management and shareholders still need to win so pilots (and other employees) lose?
My dream is to (eventually!) set up a flying company of some sort - tourist flights....aerobatic experience flights! Not sure exactly what but thats my true dream! But Im sure with the state of GA, oil prices, the global economy etc I'll need to come up with a pretty clever business plan if Im to scrape a living from it!
There's a lot of PPruners who sound trapped on the seniority ladder but, unfortunately, I rarely see anyone talking about careers after airlines. I want to finish my degree so I have a fall back.
Do you guys still fly in your spare time? Do you ever think about going biz jet or back to GA with some supplementary income from something else?
Do you think the problems of poor career progression and undervaluing of airline pilots will improve again in the long term? or is it simply a case of Fares down, costs up, management and shareholders still need to win so pilots (and other employees) lose?
Last edited by Led Goose; 26th Mar 2008 at 00:08.
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I think about other ways to fly all the time. Reality is none of them pay a decent wage. So we all stay in the airline.
Many of my friends have recently taken Bizjet jobs over airline jobs - they enjoy the flying more - but have lifestyle issues - you can't win!
I am negative about the future of the career. Unfortunately I don't think it will get better. Cadet programs and the new training schemes that put guys in airline jets with 50 hours in a plane and the rest in a sim just serve to cheapen the profession by essentially de-valuing experience and background.
Pilots will more and more become enslaved to big airlines through bonds and long training contracts.
The glorified busdriver thing was always only a joke - well not any more. It has become a reality. These days when you joke about how easy it is to fly a plane - cause the autopilot does it all - people actually believe you!!
The reality of course is that it is not any easier - we just became better at it than in the past - therefore we screw up and crash less and people perceive that as the job being simpler and you being less valuable as a result.
Many of my friends have recently taken Bizjet jobs over airline jobs - they enjoy the flying more - but have lifestyle issues - you can't win!
I am negative about the future of the career. Unfortunately I don't think it will get better. Cadet programs and the new training schemes that put guys in airline jets with 50 hours in a plane and the rest in a sim just serve to cheapen the profession by essentially de-valuing experience and background.
Pilots will more and more become enslaved to big airlines through bonds and long training contracts.
The glorified busdriver thing was always only a joke - well not any more. It has become a reality. These days when you joke about how easy it is to fly a plane - cause the autopilot does it all - people actually believe you!!
The reality of course is that it is not any easier - we just became better at it than in the past - therefore we screw up and crash less and people perceive that as the job being simpler and you being less valuable as a result.
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I admit to being competely mercenary-a job's success depends what's in it for me. I'm here for my 17 days at home this month and the flexibility of basing. Also got all my requested days off. I can overlook a lot of Cathay wackiness (to use the polite term) for that and I find being able to let the company stuff wash over my head a useful skill.
Also remember a lot of CX people have never worked for another airline and have no idea what it's like outside Cathay. If you've never worked 5 max duty/min rest days in a row or arrived on stand and had no tug/fuel/paperwork/flightplan/anyone to let the pax off, oh and by the way your outbound slot's in 20 minutes. If you've never had to pay for your food/drinks on board, done without staff travel (I know CX's isn't that great but it beats having none at all). Or had to clean your own cabin, or not had the option to ask or a single day off (fill in the blanks........) you don't know what you've got - good or bad- compared to the rest of the industry. Is the grass greener or is it astroturf?!
As long as the plusses still outweigh the rubbish you're on the right track.
Also remember a lot of CX people have never worked for another airline and have no idea what it's like outside Cathay. If you've never worked 5 max duty/min rest days in a row or arrived on stand and had no tug/fuel/paperwork/flightplan/anyone to let the pax off, oh and by the way your outbound slot's in 20 minutes. If you've never had to pay for your food/drinks on board, done without staff travel (I know CX's isn't that great but it beats having none at all). Or had to clean your own cabin, or not had the option to ask or a single day off (fill in the blanks........) you don't know what you've got - good or bad- compared to the rest of the industry. Is the grass greener or is it astroturf?!
As long as the plusses still outweigh the rubbish you're on the right track.
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I make more money on my days off then when I go to work. Use your free time and education to make money. I get lots of time off to do that so it works for me. It's all the same sh
, different logo. This is the business we are in fellas, don't let it run your life.
, different logo. This is the business we are in fellas, don't let it run your life.
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I am in the similar situation as you, Led.
My reason for Cathay is because the cadet pilot program gives you the training and a job in about a year and a half. The nicest thing is that I won't have to go into debt. My dream is the fly the big jets so CXCPP seem to align with my goal.
The consideration point would be that you will live in Hong Kong, not everyone likes living there, and you will have no housing allowance like your coworkers who did not go through the CXCPP.
My reason for Cathay is because the cadet pilot program gives you the training and a job in about a year and a half. The nicest thing is that I won't have to go into debt. My dream is the fly the big jets so CXCPP seem to align with my goal.
The consideration point would be that you will live in Hong Kong, not everyone likes living there, and you will have no housing allowance like your coworkers who did not go through the CXCPP.