CX benefits
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 16
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From: Oz
CX education allowance?
Hi team. Just wondering if anyone could enlighten me as to the education allowance for kids schooling. Also, is there any difference in the amount paid across the ranks.
Cheers in advance
blzbub
p.s. Have tried the search function with no joy.
Cheers in advance
blzbub
p.s. Have tried the search function with no joy.
Last edited by blzbub; 11th January 2008 at 04:19.
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 651
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From: Hong Kong
No difference due rank. Basically, you get 90% of the ESF rate. If your child goes to an international school (most expat kids do) CX will cover 75% of these fees, as long as that amount is higher than the 90% ESF rate.
Most international schools are around twice the price of ESF. The allowance is taxable(16%). So after tax, ESF primary will cost you around $10K HKD pa. At an international school up to $35K HKD pa out of pocket.
These amounts don't include non refundable charges/debentures etc. Also does not include bus fares which I think amounts to approx $1 - 2,000 a month per child! You will find the schools that have the most ancillary charges have the shortest waiting lists! DBIS used to have a 3-4 year waiting list.
Most international schools are around twice the price of ESF. The allowance is taxable(16%). So after tax, ESF primary will cost you around $10K HKD pa. At an international school up to $35K HKD pa out of pocket.
These amounts don't include non refundable charges/debentures etc. Also does not include bus fares which I think amounts to approx $1 - 2,000 a month per child! You will find the schools that have the most ancillary charges have the shortest waiting lists! DBIS used to have a 3-4 year waiting list.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 966
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From: up here, everyone looks like ants!
We waited 6 years to get our daughter into DBIS! We registered her when she was 6 months old, and she was finally accepted into P3.
What did us in was the introduction of the "premium debenture" scheme, which for a non-refundable payment of HKD100K (per child), children were allowed to "jump the queue" and go to the top of the waiting list.
The school debenture system really sucks. Debentures (traded on the open market) reached unbelievable levels last year. Chinese locals, desperate to keep their kids out of local schools, were paying debentures of up to HKD3 MILLION for some schools (South Island School, Canadian International School and others).
It's a poorly disguised form of extortion which has you by the short&curlies unless you cough up.
What did us in was the introduction of the "premium debenture" scheme, which for a non-refundable payment of HKD100K (per child), children were allowed to "jump the queue" and go to the top of the waiting list.
The school debenture system really sucks. Debentures (traded on the open market) reached unbelievable levels last year. Chinese locals, desperate to keep their kids out of local schools, were paying debentures of up to HKD3 MILLION for some schools (South Island School, Canadian International School and others).
It's a poorly disguised form of extortion which has you by the short&curlies unless you cough up.
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
From: Oz
Hmmmmm.......
Is it possible to get 3 kids educated at international or ESF (what does that stand for by the way) schools on an S/O wage without resorting to a diet of baked beans? Also, are the local schools that bad?
Thanks for the previous replies
blzbub
Thanks for the previous replies
blzbub
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 651
Likes: 0
From: Hong Kong
blzbub,
I only know a handful of people that tried local schools and so can't really comment. ESF (English Schools Foundation) is almost impossible to get into. Additionally, many of them have bad reputations, but I guess that is a subjective view. If you have young kids and are drawn to DB you will have trouble getting them in anywhere. Do a Gooogle on Australian International School (hong kong) and you will get an idea of fees. Schooling up here is expensive and it is a suppliers market...you take whatever school will let your kids in.
If you really want to join, commute unless you think you can provide for a family on $60K AUD pa up here! For each kid in school you can wipe out one months salary! You will also need to get some private health insurance to cover the CX shortfall in dependants coverage. A friend said it costs him less than $3K per month for BUPA.
I only know a handful of people that tried local schools and so can't really comment. ESF (English Schools Foundation) is almost impossible to get into. Additionally, many of them have bad reputations, but I guess that is a subjective view. If you have young kids and are drawn to DB you will have trouble getting them in anywhere. Do a Gooogle on Australian International School (hong kong) and you will get an idea of fees. Schooling up here is expensive and it is a suppliers market...you take whatever school will let your kids in.
If you really want to join, commute unless you think you can provide for a family on $60K AUD pa up here! For each kid in school you can wipe out one months salary! You will also need to get some private health insurance to cover the CX shortfall in dependants coverage. A friend said it costs him less than $3K per month for BUPA.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 38
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From: Australia
How about home school? Given the problems getting kids into school this could be an option if you are so inclined. My wife is a qualified school teacher in Oz so this might work for us. A couple of questions though, is this legal in Hong Kong and if so is there an established expat homeschool group in DB?
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
From: Australia
How about home school? Given the problems getting kids into school this could be an option if you are so inclined. My wife is a qualified school teacher in Oz so this might work for us. A couple of questions though, is this legal in Hong Kong and if so is there an established expat homeschool group in DB?
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 181
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From: Paradise
The whingers are out in force
blzbub,
ignore wnc and his ilk - these guys could be hired to oil up supermodels on a swimsuit calender shoot and still b!tch & moan about the job.
I have done the SO gig with 3 kids and I can vouch from personal experience that whilst you may have a few "cornflake meatloaf" nights to stretch the budget, it's doable! Not only that, you can enjoy a reasonable quality of life - now that of course, is subjective. You have to realise these "sky is falling" types complaining are the same crew on the flightdeck wearing those ridiculous <Breitling/IWC/Rolex> watches as they pull out their Macbook Pros (why are they always Macs???) to show you photos of their <Ducati/Holiday Villa/3rd wife's latest diamond ring>. (Reminds of a great story about an SO who carries a harcopy photo of a toaster to pull out whenever the crew go into the "my toy is better than your toy" p!ssing contests!!!) Some people just live on a different planet to guys like you & me. (Planet A-Scale?)
There isn't any big money in aviation anymore, and (most) guys know that... but some people simply can't manage their expectations.
Anyway, but to the point! As has been alluded to, the biggest problem is actually getting your child(ren) into school. I enrolled my kids many years ago - before I even got the job!! Luckily they were accepted in time for my HK arrival, but my situation was the exception rather than than norm. Many friends of mine are banging their heads against the wall at the moment trying to get kids in. Simple fact of supply & demand: there are too few schools for too many expat kids. As for ESF schools (which my kids are in) then I think the quality of education is superb.
I eagerly await the flaming now as to why I shouldn't be happy with my lot in life..!
blzbub, feel free to PM me if you want more detailed breakdown of kids/budgets/SO wage in HK. Cheers
ignore wnc and his ilk - these guys could be hired to oil up supermodels on a swimsuit calender shoot and still b!tch & moan about the job.
I have done the SO gig with 3 kids and I can vouch from personal experience that whilst you may have a few "cornflake meatloaf" nights to stretch the budget, it's doable! Not only that, you can enjoy a reasonable quality of life - now that of course, is subjective. You have to realise these "sky is falling" types complaining are the same crew on the flightdeck wearing those ridiculous <Breitling/IWC/Rolex> watches as they pull out their Macbook Pros (why are they always Macs???) to show you photos of their <Ducati/Holiday Villa/3rd wife's latest diamond ring>. (Reminds of a great story about an SO who carries a harcopy photo of a toaster to pull out whenever the crew go into the "my toy is better than your toy" p!ssing contests!!!) Some people just live on a different planet to guys like you & me. (Planet A-Scale?)
There isn't any big money in aviation anymore, and (most) guys know that... but some people simply can't manage their expectations.
Anyway, but to the point! As has been alluded to, the biggest problem is actually getting your child(ren) into school. I enrolled my kids many years ago - before I even got the job!! Luckily they were accepted in time for my HK arrival, but my situation was the exception rather than than norm. Many friends of mine are banging their heads against the wall at the moment trying to get kids in. Simple fact of supply & demand: there are too few schools for too many expat kids. As for ESF schools (which my kids are in) then I think the quality of education is superb.
I eagerly await the flaming now as to why I shouldn't be happy with my lot in life..!
blzbub, feel free to PM me if you want more detailed breakdown of kids/budgets/SO wage in HK. Cheers
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 215
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From: Somewhere out there...
If you arrived in HK with 3 kids, you may be able to slot them in.mid-year there is usually a scattering of places in different years in different schools.
Getting kids into Y1 is going to be very difficult.
FOr ESF you do not apply at birth like DBIS, there is an application period every year, but many of the places go to siblings of existing students. For example Discovery College ESF-PIS was fully subscribed at Y1 with most kids being siblings - the available places for free-allocation were very scarce indeed.
The CX allowance is geared towards ESF - it needs a complete overhaul, as during SARS the ESF's admitted a lot of 'HK domiciled' kids, and the knock-on effect is less places for 'non-HK domiciled' students.
The aspect of English medium education is becoming a severe problem for recruitment of expatriate staff in Hong Kong.
Some expatriate engineering vacancies have remained unfilled for over a year mostly for reasons of uncompetitive salary/T&C's and problems with availability of schooling - these positions have been advertised several times in Flight International.
The airline engineering industry is very small and close knit, and when existing employees are not in a position to recommend working at CX to their friends, word soon gets around. Usually by the time CX interviews someone, they will have been turned down by both big players in the sandpit.
Tony Tyler was asked where he thought the engineers and pilots required to operate all of the new aircraft were going to come from - his reply:
"We are just going to have to pay for them"
Bring it on!
Getting kids into Y1 is going to be very difficult.
FOr ESF you do not apply at birth like DBIS, there is an application period every year, but many of the places go to siblings of existing students. For example Discovery College ESF-PIS was fully subscribed at Y1 with most kids being siblings - the available places for free-allocation were very scarce indeed.
The CX allowance is geared towards ESF - it needs a complete overhaul, as during SARS the ESF's admitted a lot of 'HK domiciled' kids, and the knock-on effect is less places for 'non-HK domiciled' students.
The aspect of English medium education is becoming a severe problem for recruitment of expatriate staff in Hong Kong.
Some expatriate engineering vacancies have remained unfilled for over a year mostly for reasons of uncompetitive salary/T&C's and problems with availability of schooling - these positions have been advertised several times in Flight International.
The airline engineering industry is very small and close knit, and when existing employees are not in a position to recommend working at CX to their friends, word soon gets around. Usually by the time CX interviews someone, they will have been turned down by both big players in the sandpit.
Tony Tyler was asked where he thought the engineers and pilots required to operate all of the new aircraft were going to come from - his reply:
"We are just going to have to pay for them"
Bring it on!
